With "escort off" your CLs still fire. Show me a WWII CL that can fire 40 miles please.
Please show me in my post where i said that Cls are bombarding from 40 miles.
Get a grip yourself first or better take a hike. [:-]
Or even better do some testing. Put some Dutch units with 5.9 inch guns and bombard them with TF with BBs and DDs only with no escorts bombard. You will get no hits from CD units. Now put Cls and CAs with DDs with no escorts bombard and your CAs and CLs will get plastered. In first case your BBs don't move into the range of CD batteries and in second case they do.
The max range on Yamoto's 18 inch guns was around 20 miles.
Where an Earth are you getting 45 miles from?[8|]
Most BB's bombarded from about 3 to 4 miles off shore; CA's and CL's were from maybe 3 or 2 miles off shore, and DD's from a mile or so off shore.
You do like to be able to see what you are shootimg at!
The Japanese at Guadalcanal (night bombardments) were shooting at flares fired up over the airfield by Japanese ground troops on the island.
US bombardments of Japanese bases did not have that advantage.
Even during Viet Nam (in the late 1960's and early 1970's) and in Lebonan (1980's), our BB's rarely fired from more than 5 miles off shore, and fired at best 10 miles inland.
Gregg
The gunnery guys definitely wanted to be able to see what they were shooting at, and the fall of their shells. At night that means a few thousand yards, certainly less than 20,000 yds (10 nautical miles). In any case, there never was a bombardment over the horizon, not until Gulf War I, anyway (assuming you consider launching Tomahawks to be a bombardment mission).
At 20 miles off the coast a BB would be firing a smudge on the horizon unless the target was a mountain top (not too many airfields on a mountain top). Ah you say, it's firing at the map coordinates of the airfield. Of course the firing ship does not know where it is on the map except perhaps within the tolerances of celestial navigation. Now a really good old time navigator might get his "fix" down to a 1/4 mile or so given ideal conditions at nautical twilight (either 4-6 hours before the midnite gunshoot or 4-6 hours after it). Shooting by the map isn't going to be very accurate unless one can establish exactly where on the map one is shooting from. That means getting close enough to the land to take bearings or sextant angles using recognizable landmarks. Lighthouses are nice landmarks but oddly enough they're not lit up when there's a battle going on. Hilltops and points of land are more likely to be available but making out them out CLEARLY in the dark of night from any distance is quite difficult. Navigational inaccuracies will make for dang poor shooting.
BTW CD gunners always know EXACTLY where they are on the map.
ORIGINAL: Gregg
The max range on Yamoto's 18 inch guns was around 20 miles.
Where an Earth are you getting 45 miles from?[8|]
Well, Gregg, discussion here has nothing to do with real life.
Although i screwed up with imperial system, this doesn't change relative ranges from database. 18.1 inch gun has range of 45000 which i assumed to be meters, while they were something else (yards for example, as rl range was 45,960 yards = 26 miles). 8" gun has range of 32000 and 5"gun has range of 20000. 150-mm Dutch CD gun has range of 21000.
And i was on receiving end of BB bombardment while having around 100 150-mm CD guns. None fired. Than at Rangoon i had two British 6" CD guns and 2000 mines. Same situation but escorts bombarded. Not only 1 DD hit a mine it was hit by CD guns too. Port Blair two 6" CD guns and 7000 mines, escort didn't bombard - no mine hits no CD hits, base pulverized. Landing next turn with support of MSW - carnage. Japan lost CL and 15+ APs. Joe keeps all AARs so may be he can give exact numbers.
At 20 miles off the coast a BB would be firing a smudge on the horizon unless the target was a mountain top (not too many airfields on a mountain top). Ah you say, it's firing at the map coordinates of the airfield. Of course the firing ship does not know where it is on the map except perhaps within the tolerances of celestial navigation. Now a really good old time navigator might get his "fix" down to a 1/4 mile or so given ideal conditions at nautical twilight (either 4-6 hours before the midnite gunshoot or 4-6 hours after it). Shooting by the map isn't going to be very accurate unless one can establish exactly where on the map one is shooting from. That means getting close enough to the land to take bearings or sextant angles using recognizable landmarks. Lighthouses are nice landmarks but oddly enough they're not lit up when there's a battle going on. Hilltops and points of land are more likely to be available but making out them out CLEARLY in the dark of night from any distance is quite difficult. Navigational inaccuracies will make for dang poor shooting.
BTW CD gunners always know EXACTLY where they are on the map.
All this is true for the Real life gunnery, and here we are talking about this particular feature in the WitP.
BTW, the only one bombardment which was close to what we are getting in the WitP, was at the beginning of the Guadalcanal campaign (i returned all the books so cant give you quotes, but one is "Guadalcanal" another one is "Dauntless helldivers").
1. Japanese had an artillery observation post on the mountain overlooking Henderson field, therefore they had exact coordinates of all targets they wanted to hit.
2. During the approach Japanese put lights on the beach in the spot with known coordinates, so ships can use them as reference points.
3. Floatplanes were dropping flares on the pre designated target so first salvos could be adjusted before commencing continuous firing.
So Japanese knew coordinates of firing ship, coordinates of target and could adjust the fire in the beginning which gave those incredible results.
Now pilot from CV squadron landed on Henderson field was on the receiving side. So he describes in his book incredibly accurate shelling. Later when observation post was eliminated and Japanese troops pushed from airfield he describes regular night shelling as just a nuisance.
With "escort off" your CLs still fire. Show me a WWII CL that can fire 40 miles please.
Please show me in my post where i said that Cls are bombarding from 40 miles.
Get a grip yourself first or better take a hike. [:-]
Or even better do some testing. Put some Dutch units with 5.9 inch guns and bombard them with TF with BBs and DDs only with no escorts bombard. You will get no hits from CD units. Now put Cls and CAs with DDs with no escorts bombard and your CAs and CLs will get plastered. In first case your BBs don't move into the range of CD batteries and in second case they do.
BUT there is always a chance that you will hit a mine no matter what. It's just very small when you bombard from 40 miles.
Are you under the mistaken impression that the game keeps you out to the maximum limit of your guns? If you think that, you think wrong. As for "taking a hike", well....
[>:]
I suggest you do some testing. In a controlled environment where you know the supply levels and disruption of the CDUs. You will find that your statement is just hot air.
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
I suggest you do some testing. In a controlled environment where you know the supply levels and disruption of the CDUs. You will find that your statement is just hot air.
Here was my nasty response to Yamatohugger's petty slurs.
On second thought I’ve decided not to pick up the fight and put him into the ignore list. So i will not be able to profit from his incredible erudition and deep knowledge of WitP game mechanics.
Unfortunatelly i will not be able to enjoy his incredibly constructive style of discussing controversial topics either.
Interesting edit. His initial response said something about me being a teenager or some other thing I really cant remember. I was in the process of running a few tests on this (I had gotten 4 done working on number 5) and I saw no difference at all between them. Escorts on, off, BBs in TF, BBs not in TF, all the same.
He doesnt know what he is talking about.
Edit: 1 thing I did notice, but havent checked out is DL of the bombarding TF. The CDU never fired more than 12 shots at me, the least amount was 2. I started a head to head game and "stood down" all aircraft from both sides to get the bombard TF to its target faster, so the CDU didnt have the TF spotted before the bombardment. Its very likely that DL matters on CDU fire.
Vanilla scenario – Marianas. All aircrafts are shut down and moved to Palau.
Saipan Supply – 9875, required – 2872.
Saipan CD regiment. Commander 60-59. Disruption 0, fatigue 5, supply 58, required 58, support 32, required 26.
Composition, 100 (100), 8 -8” CD gun range 32000, 8 – 5” CD guns range 15000. 8 – 4.7” DP guns range 18000
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/14/44
This one is conducted by Maryland, no escorts bombard.
16” Mk1 – range 35000
5”Mk7 – range 16000
5”mk10 – range 15000
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Saipan, at 63,64
Allied Ships
BB Maryland
Japanese ground losses:
113 casualties reported
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1
Only main battery used, out of range of 8” CD guns. No hits on BB.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/14/44
Same set up. Escorts bombard
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Saipan, at 63,64 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
77 Coastal gun shots fired in defence.
Allied Ships
DD Beale
DD Bennion, Shell hits 18, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bennett
DD Callaghan, Shell hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bullard
DD Bryant
BB Maryland, Shell hits 5
Japanese ground losses:
29 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
Port supply hits 1
DDs with 5” mk12 gun had to move in range of 8”CD guns. Hits scored. 1 DD sunk by 8’ gun.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/14/44
CA Salt Lake City with 8” Mk9 has range 32000. No escorts bombard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Saipan, at 63,64 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
14 Coastal gun shots fired in defence.
Allied Ships
CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 6, on fire
Japanese ground losses:
75 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
No hits on DDs scored as they didn’t participate in bombardment, CA had damage 18-11-9.
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/14/44
Same set up. Escort bombard.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Saipan, at 63,64 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!
94 Coastal gun shots fired in defence.
Allied Ships
DD Cony, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Conway
DD Colahan, Shell hits 14, on fire, heavy damage
DD Claxton, Shell hits 12, on fire, heavy damage
DD Chauncey
DD Capps, Shell hits 6, on fire
CA Salt Lake City, Shell hits 9
Japanese ground losses:
44 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Well my dear Yamatohugger, from your post I see you don’t seem to remember my post. I said that you are either teenager or an idiot, because unable to prove your statements with facts and use slurs and petty insults instead. Than I thought that I can offend some decent teenagers who possibly exist on planet Earth, so I deleted it.
Now look into your birth certificate. It should be easy even for mental midget like you. If you were born after 1985 you are a teenager and therefore have some time to improve, if before 1985 you are an idiot, which is unfortunately a permanent condition.
Check the 5" ammo of your BBs.
What slurs did I make? I said "get a grip", and that still stands. Personal attacks are the first thing someone with nothing to say says BTW.
Edit: I thought I was on your ignore list, no? Please do so. Thanks.
ORIGINAL: Yamato hugger
Personal attacks are the first thing someone with nothing to say says BTW.
...your statement is just hot air
He doesnt know what he is talking about.
Roger that, looks like you admit that you have nothing to say.
I apologize if i offended you, that was exactly my intention. i will delete any personal jokes i made and will enable ignore list. Although my offer to you to take a hike still stands.[:D] Chiao.
Volley 1 used 14" and 6" left side ammo.
Volley 2 used 14" and 5" right side ammo
Volley 3 used 14" ammo only
Volley 4 used 5" left side ammo only
Volley 5 used 6" right side ammo only
Volley 6 didnt use any ammo, but scored no hits also
Volley 7 used 6" left side ammo only.
Now why would a CDU not fire at a BB? Maybe because they know they cant hurt it and are not going to give away their position? I wouldnt be surprised if the program wont fire 8" and below at BBs only. 6" and below at CAs+, 5" and below at CLs+. But we wont know the answer to that unless Mike says so.
As for your cute little remarks: I dont care, and I dont think anyone else does either. Enjoy yourself.
