Aleutian Campaign

[niceguy2005]

I don't know if this is the right area to post in, but what the heck...I am considering creating a scenario for WiTP convering the Aleutian Campaign, probably from May '42 to the end of '43. Does anyone know if there is such a scenario already? Does anyone have an interest in such a scenario? I am actually thinking of creating two. One historical and the other a what if - maybe Japan tries to take Anchorage.

[jwilkerson]

Lack of correct weather modling for that area - might be a hindrance. But if you do proceed - would be interested in your ideas regarding disconnects between the game and reality in terms of modeling this theater.

[niceguy2005]

I agree that it might be difficult to model weather properly. I know the game designers have some rules for the arctic region. I need to review those. Based on the accounts I have read, the largest impact the weather may have had on the campaign was inhibiting air power. Primarily, naval search and recon missions were a problem. The pilots just couldn't see anything through the fog and bad weather. Naval operations were also hindered, but not to the extent that it should be too tough to recreate.

[el cid again]

I am actually thinking of creating two. One historical and the other a what if - maybe Japan tries to take Anchorage.

How about a HISTORICAL what if???

The US wanted to build the Alcan to Nome - and THEN reverse the old Russian idea of the Trans Siberian RR (which was to terminate in New York City) - building a RR all the way to Nome from Western Canada - AND onward across Siberia. This is the DIRECT route to Japan. [When Japan surrendered, instructions were broadcast from Adak - because it was the CLOSEST point to Japan we had!! Not many people understand how the globe really looks - Mercator maps make the north look fat when it is skinny.] Stalin killed the idea.

Japan felt the North was a logical invasion route too. It worried about it, and that is why they took the positions of Adak and Kiska. Whatever the problems, you must admit, the route has both distance and lack of tropical diseases in its favor.

It could go the other way too. Japan could invade North America - IF that made any sense - best by the route that gives it bases and ports along the route.

I have books on this material if you need data.

[el cid again]

Lack of correct weather modling for that area - might be a hindrance. But if you do proceed - would be interested in your ideas regarding disconnects between the game and reality in terms of modeling this theater.

It is a sore point with Alaskans, but there is a worldwide, and nationwide, misunderstanding of weather in Alaska. Alaska is HUGE. It is farther east to west across Alaska than it is from San Francisco to NYC. It is fatrther north to south across Alaska than from Mexico to Canada. 75% of ALL US coastline is in Alaska! It is not just 1/5 of US land area, it is SPREAD OUT land area. Weather varies a great deal over that vast range.

My wife came here from China. She worked for British academics who told her I lied, and we have snow year around! She got off the plane on July 6 of that year with two heavy coats and asked "where is the snow?" My company is HQ in Portland - and they send us snow shoevels in August, our hottest month.

Fact: The Aleutions virtually never have ANY snow - except on the peaks of a few taller mountains - NO snow where people live. South of Anchorage snow is rare. 500 miles NORTH of Anchorage they put a USAAC cold weather lab - to study how to operate in the cold. But the idea it "warms up to 40 below" - common in Fairbanks - is alien in Anchorage. And Fairbanks itself is still SOUTH of the Arctic circle. The really bizzare weather occurs so far north there is only one significant town - Barrow.

The weather in the Aleutians is bad in the sense of fog. But so is Japan. Japan is socked in 85% of the time. We should fix that - it matters for bomber raids. And IF we do, we can add southern alaska to the fix. But it is not worse than in Japan, Kamchatka, Komandorskies, etc.

[niceguy2005]

Thanks el cid. I may be requesting data help. I'm still getting my brain wrapped around what will be involved here. I'm also puzzled why there isn't an aleutian scenario. The campaign was more than just a foot note in the war and your right. It is a logical invasion route.

Your right, the what if scenario will be a HISTORICAL what if. I am sure that the Japanese had some contengency plans for Alaska and I know that some allied commanders pushed for a Northerly invasion route.

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

In cold regions, north and south, penalties in winter (opposite times of the year) include:

1. Troops take higher causalties, somewhat like malaria zones.
2. Task forces take more system damage.
3. Air search is less effective.
4. Air strike missions are cancelled more often.
5. Air operational losses are higher.
6. Engineering operations and repair take longer.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

I agree that it might be difficult to model weather properly. I know the game designers have some rules for the arctic region. I need to review those. Based on the accounts I have read, the largest impact the weather may have had on the campaign was inhibiting air power. Primarily, naval search and recon missions were a problem. The pilots just couldn't see anything through the fog and bad weather. Naval operations were also hindered, but not to the extent that it should be too tough to recreate.

[Blackhorse]

Niceguy,

Hi. The Aleutians would make an excellent "mini-scenario." I did research for the Alaska section of Andrew Brown's map, so let me know if I can help. I would advise against trying to do an Aleutian scenario with the stock map (doesn't have many important bases; does have a silly coastal railroad that never existed).

Weather is problematic no matter which map you use. The game model: "cold weather," doesn't reflect the real problems -- fog and high winds. The warm water of the Japanese current runs along the Aleutians and the Alaskan and Canadian coast. Temperatures are (relatively) warm along the coast -- but some of the islands have only two weeks of clear weather each year. Spring was probably the worst time for air operations.

The Alaska-Canadian highway (Alcan) in the AB map is something of a fudge. It was completed in late '42 as a "pioneer road" which only a bulldozer could transit from end-to-end. It didn't open to all-weather truck traffic until late 1944. The Alcan's real value was as a navigation aid / emergency landing strip for lend-lease aircraft being shipped to Russia. Over half of the 15,000 US aircraft sent to Russia went via the Alaska-Siberian (AlSib) route. From Great Falls, Montana, US pilots flew the planes in stages to Fairbanks. Once in Fairbanks, Russian inspectors would accept the planes, and Russian pilots would ferry them direct to Russia, or in the case of short-range fighters, stage them through Nome.

In an Aleutians scenario, the Allies should suffer an additional points loss if the Japanese take Nome and Fairbanks and cut the Alsib lend-lease route.

[el cid again]

I'm also puzzled why there isn't an aleutian scenario. The campaign was more than just a foot note in the war and your right. It is a logical invasion route.

US amphib techniques were developed in the Aleutians - and involved both successes and dismal failures. The Eskimo Scouts were copied by MacArthur and given a similar name.

The campaign was kept out of US media - many combat vets found even their families didn't believe Japan had invaded or there was fighting - it was not in the paper! This may contribute to lack of knowledge.

A disaster occurred at one of our invasions. Japan evacuated and we failed to scout - so we thought they were still there. US troops hit one end of the L shaped valley, and Canadians hit the other end. When the two bodies of troops met - in fog - they began to engage - and being fired upon they "knew" the guys shooting were the enemy. Awful mess. And nary a Japanese on the island! Six dogs were left behind.

Start with The Thousand Mile War. Proceed to a series The Forgotten War (4 volumns I know of). There is also Soldiers of the Mists. Finally, there is a horrible book, but necessary: Silent Siege by Burt Webber. He catalogs every known attack on North America by Japan. He has cooperation from Japanese sources and material available no where else. But he believes in EVERYTHING he sees - Japan has atom bombs the size of a matchbox because some wartime Japanese newspaper quotes an eccentric millionaire member of Parliment who said so in a speech! Now I believe in the Japanese atom bomb - and even in a Japanese attempt to make an SSN (only the British MAY have tried sooner) - and do original research for writers and academics on archival materials on these subjects. But Webber has NO technical or critical judgement - you need to have common sense when you read what he reports. But you want to know about this or that - he probably has pictures and interviews.

[el cid again]

In cold regions, north and south, penalties in winter (opposite times of the year) include:

1. Troops take higher causalties, somewhat like malaria zones.
2. Task forces take more system damage.
3. Air search is less effective.
4. Air strike missions are cancelled more often.
5. Air operational losses are higher.
6. Engineering operations and repair take longer.

Hope this Helps...

All these things - if implemented within reson - are correct. Exposure is a problem. Visibility makes searching harder - and socked in airfields cannot even take off in that period. You get off the ground it is VERY likely you will run into a mountain or not be able to land because of visibility too - STILL a problem. Engineering probably is wrong - but maybe not - they didn't know things we consider SOP today. [We build all year around in the coldest climates now - but then they thought it was not possible in winter, for example.]



Michael Wood

[el cid again]

The Alaska-Canadian highway (Alcan) in the AB map is something of a fudge. It was completed in late '42 as a "pioneer road" which only a bulldozer could transit from end-to-end.

Incorrect. The ALCAN was built as an "engineer road" in only six months - in 1941 - BEFORE the Pacific campaign begins. [It was built by black US Army engineers, some of whom still live in Alaska]. It was ALWAYS possible to drive it with a military truck (e.g. duce and a half) - although it was an adventure and remains so. Until a decade ago the possibility of a broken axel was fair - and loss of a windshield and/or headlights is still almost guaranteed! At NO TIME is the road every a proper highway end to end - even where it is built as such frost and other things tear it up - and also there is always a great deal of construction. The road was constantly improved and shortened - it is severl dozens of miles shorter than it was in 1941 today - maybe more than that - so historic "mile markers" are misleading now. But it will never be a normal road either. It is remote - you never have a traffic jam - and so beautiful when you can see (not always) it is hard to breathe. I have seen four feet of snow fall in two hours (!) - and travel in winter with less than a major truck is ill advised (although fools like me do it). In winter if you meet someone coming the other way you stop and talk - because each of you knows the route ahead for the other - and because there is only one lane open and you can't get by without some thought and cooperation. In the days before services were built it must have been even more of a challenge - but in a winter crossing most services are closed even now - so I carry my own fuel for the whole route!

The original road was made of logs. It was then converted to gravel, and gravel is the best road material in the north. You can fix anything with a road grader. But today it is mostly paved most of the time - as long as you understand there are always areas under construction or reconstruction and these are so bad you cannot drive even 2 miles an hour or you will bottom out and wreak your suspension.

[el cid again]

It didn't open to all-weather truck traffic until late 1944. The Alcan's real value was as a navigation aid / emergency landing strip for lend-lease aircraft being shipped to Russia.

Double nonsense.

Not only could trucks drive it, planes could NOT land on it in many sections. It was only 16 feet wide (some original bridges still exist)
and it was not a suitable surface for an aircraft. The road foundation was nothing like strong enough, and it was very rough, being made of logs. Land on it - if you survive - your plane will be a write off - most places in those days. But trucks made the passage from late 1941 - and MOST material went that way throughout the war. The road was never finished - the terminus was at Nome - and the railroad was never built - it was really just a RR route to begin with - a road to move material for building the RR.
As I say - some of the constructors still live here. They are very proud. There are museums along the route with period equipment and pictures.

[niceguy2005]

Thanks all. I will continue to mull this over the next few days and look around for resources. A couple ideas:

1. although the game does account for some of the weather related problems, I doubt that it accounts for the persistant fog conditions dominant through out the Aleutians. To really does this accurately I will need to find some compensator for that.
2. Blackhorse is correct that the it might be best not to use the stock map. As I am totally new at scenario design I don't know what I will be able to do with that. I'm sure there is a reasonable solution.
3. I need to dig up OOB data. I have found some on the net so far. When I have had a chance to read through it and put it into context with what that means for a scenario for WiTP I will post it. If anyone can verify/correct that would be great.

[niceguy2005]

Thanks el cid. I will check out these sources.

I have read accounts of the "invasion" of the vacant island. The report I read had 300 dead from various causes related to the invasion.

Which reminds me, it would be nice to simulate the fact that the US was not well trained yet in amphib landings, i.e. high casualty rates. I am thinking maybe just a house rule that says that no unit may use preparation points.

[el cid again]

2. Blackhorse is correct that the it might be best not to use the stock map. As I am totally new at scenario design I don't know what I will be able to do with that. I'm sure there is a reasonable solution.

Modify any CHS scenario and it will work fine with the appropriate map by Brown (there are two - regular and extended I guess).

[akdreemer]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The Alaska-Canadian highway (Alcan) in the AB map is something of a fudge. It was completed in late '42 as a "pioneer road" which only a bulldozer could transit from end-to-end.

Incorrect. The ALCAN was built as an "engineer road" in only six months - in 1941 - BEFORE the Pacific campaign begins. [It was built by black US Army engineers, some of whom still live in Alaska]. It was ALWAYS possible to drive it with a military truck (e.g. duce and a half) - although it was an adventure and remains so. Until a decade ago the possibility of a broken axel was fair - and loss of a windshield and/or headlights is still almost guaranteed! At NO TIME is the road every a proper highway end to end - even where it is built as such frost and other things tear it up - and also there is always a great deal of construction. The road was constantly improved and shortened - it is severl dozens of miles shorter than it was in 1941 today - maybe more than that - so historic "mile markers" are misleading now. But it will never be a normal road either. It is remote - you never have a traffic jam - and so beautiful when you can see (not always) it is hard to breathe. I have seen four feet of snow fall in two hours (!) - and travel in winter with less than a major truck is ill advised (although fools like me do it). In winter if you meet someone coming the other way you stop and talk - because each of you knows the route ahead for the other - and because there is only one lane open and you can't get by without some thought and cooperation. In the days before services were built it must have been even more of a challenge - but in a winter crossing most services are closed even now - so I carry my own fuel for the whole route!

The original road was made of logs. It was then converted to gravel, and gravel is the best road material in the north. You can fix anything with a road grader. But today it is mostly paved most of the time - as long as you understand there are always areas under construction or reconstruction and these are so bad you cannot drive even 2 miles an hour or you will bottom out and wreak your suspension.

Small note... the ALCAN was built by a combination of US Army Engineers AND civilian contractors... approxiamately 1/3rd of the construction workers were Negro, all of these in the US General Service Engineer Rgts. Indeed, the majority of the General Service Engineers in the US army during WWII were composed of Negro troops...

[Blackhorse]

Original: me

The Alaska-Canadian highway (Alcan) in the AB map is something of a fudge. It was completed in late '42 as a "pioneer road" which only a bulldozer could transit from end-to-end.

Original: el cid

Incorrect. The ALCAN was built as an "engineer road" in only six months - in 1941 - BEFORE the Pacific campaign begins. [It was built by black US Army engineers, some of whom still live in Alaska]. It was ALWAYS possible to drive it with a military truck (e.g. duce and a half) -

Here's an excerpt from the (USA's) National Building Museum's website:

Fearful that the Japanese Navy would seize control of the shipping lanes in the North Pacific and cut off supplies to Alaska, Roosevelt finally approved the building of a highway on 11 February 1942. Construction began the following March.

The primary purpose of the highway was the defense and resupply of the "Alaska Skyway," a string of WWII airfields. The army selected the route by connecting the dots on a map marking existing airfields. . . The military justified their choice by pointing out that it was far enough inland to be safe from enemy attack and that pilots could follow the road to avoid getting lost.

When the formal completion of the pioneer road was celebrated on 20 November 1942, the road was all but impassable to any vehicle besides bulldozers. In 1943 the trail was developed into a standard highway by the U.S. Public Roads Administration and civilian contractors. Rebuilding nearly the entire trail, workers graded and blasted 25.4 million cubic yards of earth, straightening and shortening the route in the process by nearly 200 miles.

The same information is available from a dozen other websites, or from The Forgotten War and the Thousand Mile War if you actually read them.

[el cid again]

I stand (partially) corrected. The road was built in 1942, not 1941, and it was completed in 8 months, not 6. It was always passable to trucks, but it was considered inadqueate to military needs because sections were only one lane wide. Seven US Army engineer battalions built the road - 2 combat engineer battalions and five GSA battalions - only three of which were black units. Parts of the road at both ends had been built early in the 20th century and there were several points of access - so building could occur in both directions from more than one point. The route was serviced by the White Pass and Yukon RR - which was taken over by the Army for the purpose - and by the Yukon River - as well as in particular the port of Valdez, which had a local road to the intended route area. It is probably wrong to actually use the road early in 1942, and so a house rule probably should forbid it.