Uncommon Valor 2

[Ursa MAior]

What do you think, will this game ever published? Or WitP II will contain flexibly resizeable scenarios?

If there will be an UV2 my wishlist is

1. To incorporate all changes from WitP (sub hunter TFs, Carrier planes' op points, carrier capable etc sqns etc.)
2. To have a well thought VP system which disallows unhistorical strategies (like USN defending only AUS+NM, or IJN taking Lunga-Tulagi and digging in for defence).
3. TF-TG system which worked well in Task Force 1942 and is historically accurate (IJN liked names like Screening force, Main Force etc, the outcome is the same, one navy 'force' or fleet, many subunits), which willbring more confusion to surface battles, as it was historically.
4. A bit more graphically detailed (even Carrier strike styled would be OK with me) or 2d but spectacular surface combat
5. Same with air combat
6. I hate playing a quartermaster but it is a bit strange that even Yamato's 460 mm shells are in the inventory of every small garrison I am saying replenishment (esp ammo) only in really big bases.

[rogueusmc]

I don't think they are planning either one...

[Akos Gergely]

I second to that my friend! Also I agree with every point of it.
IMHO UV II is unlikely, maybe a WitP II. IIRC there is a topic dealing with this on WitP's forum page.

[rogueusmc]

They'd want to go with a new engine and I think Gary already stated that he wasn't going to attempt another game that big for a LOOOOONG time.

[Ursa MAior]

Although I do accept, and admire GG's achievements, I would like to see some fresh approach towards this kind of grand strategy games of this theatre, with realistic air combat results.

[rogueusmc]

But if you run the game AI vs AI, you see pretty much historical results...

[Ursa MAior]

Which is obviously the reason why I bough this game. [:D]

I know almost nothing of AI programming, but in any game the AI should be prepared for the weirdest ideas of the players, that's what playtesters are there for AFAIK.

[Bodhi]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

I know almost nothing of AI programming, but in any game the AI should be prepared for the weirdest ideas of the players, that's what playtesters are there for AFAIK.

When you buy UV or WITP you automatically become a playtester. Didn't anyone tell you?

[Ursa MAior]

If its a joke then it is an interesting point of view, maybe I should have written professional or employed testers. If not IMHO the playtesters must provide regular feedback on the publisher company who evaluates it and make changes accordingly. I dont think people who have spent money on buying a game (as opposed to testers who are payed this or that way for playing) should be used as 'test animals'. Of course user feedback is always importrant.

Since the widespread use of the internet it has becmae standard practice (unfortunately) to release 'nearly-finished' products and patch it up until infinity later.

Uff

The Big Bear has spoken

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

If not IMHO the playtesters must provide regular feedback on the publisher company who evaluates it and make changes accordingly. I dont think people who have spent money on buying a game (as opposed to testers who are payed this or that way for playing) should be used as 'test animals'.

They havn't been. However since WitP's release, most of the original beta-testers (who were also UV testers) have moved with their lives, or had pressing outside concerns leaving only a couple left to carry the load. Because of this, a decision was made to allow the general public to participate in limited public betas to help ensure that the newer release is tested as much as possible before becoming official. There is still plenty of internal testing going on and you don't see a good number of the builds before they become "public beta"

As for being "required" to provide regular feedback, while I can understand the expectation, please be aware that we (the beta testers) are volunteers who have to take time out from our own schedules to perform these duties. Depending on these outside factors (otherwise called "life") we cannot always respond on all things nor can responses always be 'quick'

We do our best.

[Ursa MAior]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
They havn't been. However since WitP's release, most of the original beta-testers (who were also UV testers) have moved with their lives, or had pressing outside concerns leaving only a couple left to carry the load. Because of this, a decision was made to allow the general public to participate in limited public betas to help ensure that the newer release is tested as much as possible before becoming official. There is still plenty of internal testing going on and you don't see a good number of the builds before they become "public beta"

As for being "required" to provide regular feedback, while I can understand the expectation, please be aware that we (the beta testers) are volunteers who have to take time out from our own schedules to perform these duties. Depending on these outside factors (otherwise called "life") we cannot always respond on all things nor can responses always be 'quick'

We do our best.

I appreciate your efforts, and I am sorry if my post has sounded like a complaint or something, I just wanted to let my voice heard about
1. There is potential in a UV2 IMHO.
2. I came across some really weird air to air results and wanted to share my opinion about the need of some serious upgrades in this area. I know I cannot expect such a major overhaul from an almost three years old game, but defintely one in the next version or something dealing with htis area of war.

As a user I am gladly willing to share my opinion , but doenst have the time to playtest.

Best regards

[Nikademus]

Feedback is always welcome [;)]

I can't speak for Matrix in terms of their future plans, but personally I doubt we'll see a UV-2 anytime soon though it's probably a more palitable thought than a "WitP-2" Gary Grigsby made it very publically known (in an interview) that he was 'done' ever trying a wargame (WitP) on such a grand scale again as the challenge was enormous even with UV to use as a template.

Rest assured though that Matrix hasn't given up on UV or WitP. Support continues but may be slow in coming as the programmers need to work on up and coming projects in order to keep dinner on the table. [;)]

[Ursa MAior]

There were some righteous criticism from War in Russia on, about the way his programs handle air combat. Since right from the beginning WWII saw the rising of air power to the status of dominant service arm, it is not a small problem. Being an ex-salesperson and a historian to be, I dont have the slightest clue how to write a script or an AI to handle this (or any computer programing related) issue, but if I'd do one I am sure this would be one (probably the last) line of A2A combat code.

If attacker's # is equal to or more than 3-1 compared to defender's # and attacker avg exp is more than 120% of defender experience, then attacker loses no or half of the planes orginally calculated plus defender 's losses are doubled or something.

As of sequel to UV I think all of us would be happy to see the improvements (part of them mentioned in my list at the begining of the topic) of the engine carried over from WitP to UV. I know this has been discussed before but with that patch say -3.0- we could get way closer to the original goal, to reprodce historical events.

Well I've been wating for computer EiA since ages now, and seeing the problems arising with the CoG engine I can wait a bit longer. Maybe in a year or so we'll have an almost perfect patched up UV.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior
If attacker's # is equal to or more than 3-1 compared to defender's # and attacker avg exp is more than 120% of defender experience, then attacker loses no or half of the planes orginally calculated plus defender 's losses are doubled or something.

I'd hate to be the program that tries to execute that ... or something

[Bodhi]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior
If attacker's # is equal to or more than 3-1 compared to defender's # and attacker avg exp is more than 120% of defender experience, then attacker loses no or half of the planes orginally calculated plus defender 's losses are doubled or something.

I'd hate to be the program that tries to execute that ... or something

Isn't the "or something" a random number, otherwise known as a dice roll?

[Ursa MAior]

Well, in a war (all fo the known wars), if you had the advantage (or were in similar levels compared to the enemy in every area) 3-1 was ALWAYS enough to win. I am (and always was) unlucky with the dice (thank god only with the throwing not other parts of my life), but given I am an avid player, or have played intensively warhammmer, 40k, DBM, Advanced third reich etc., it is not good news. I havent played Piquet yet, but plan to do since "the luck factor" is simbolized by decks of cards instead of dice.

Back to our issue based on the comments I redefine this line as

If attacker's # is equal to or more than 3-1 compared to defender's # and attacker avg exp is more than 120% of defender experience, then attacker loses half of the planes orginally calculated plus defender 's losses are doubled, only exception the defenders morale is double than the attackers.

Of course you can toy with the numbers a bit 130% instead of 120 or morale isnt double only 40% more etc. but at the end the role of luck should be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced in a game which deals with wars, since they are mainly a logistics issue not a luck one. Once or twice unexpected things can happen but not regularly.

[crsutton]

Oh, there will be another South Pacific campaign. However, you have to remember that UV is four years old and was designed for the technology that was around at that time. Four years is a generation as far as computers and computer games go. It would not be wise to do UV2 in any format resembling the original as purchasers these days will expect more. That means that any UV like game designed today will have to have a new engine with better graphics and more bells and whistles. Gary has already indicated that he is not interested and moving on to other things. That does not mean that somebody or some other company won't give the South Pacific another treatment in a few year. Giving the nature and importance of the fight for Guadacanal, it is inevitable that another game will come along in a few years.

If it is as good as UV is, I will buy it.