WPO: First impressions

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

THe main supply bases are The US (which doesn't have nearly as much or gain as much as in WitP), Karachi, Some in Australia (not a lot), and some Chinese.

The Japanese also produce a fair amount of supply, but their best means of aquiring it is capturing it.



With the submarines in the Pacific, to originally counter it I had high dud rates, but the betas weren't fond of them. If need be we can go back to higher dud rates. Also, turning the sub doctrines on will help too.

Glad to see everyone likes the game!

Well the submarine torpedoes don't seem to do a lot of damage - so maybe that was how you countered things. Unless I get 2 hits on a merchantman he doesn't seem to go down - and 2 hits on the Kongo didn't seem to phase her much. And I don't mind getting hits - I didn't even mind too much when my Chinese TF ran over one Japanese sub which then hit three of my ships all in one turn !!! I guess I'm rootin' for the subs - period !!!

And I bet if I read the MANUAL I'll find out where the secret supply sources in China are !!!

[CMDRMCTOAST]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

THe main supply bases are The US (which doesn't have nearly as much or gain as much as in WitP), Karachi, Some in Australia (not a lot), and some Chinese.

The Japanese also produce a fair amount of supply, but their best means of aquiring it is capturing it.



With the submarines in the Pacific, to originally counter it I had high dud rates, but the betas weren't fond of them. If need be we can go back to higher dud rates. Also, turning the sub doctrines on will help too.

Glad to see everyone likes the game!

Leave the subs be for a little while, I like them the way they are unless they
really start to change the balance, and then adjust only in small increments..
WITP I think needs to go slightly the other way.
Those old ships are great targets for subs I would imagine...

Can't say it enough Tanker but the game is fantastic...

[String]

[center]FUN![/center]

[Roger Neilson]

Yeah, even more fun when a do or die Jap takes you on eh?


Roger

[Gem35]

Tanker this game is amazing!! This just might be better than WitP which I thought would always be my favorite. So now I have favorite 1 and favorite 1A. [8D]

[DuckofTindalos]

Aah, luxury problems...[:D]

[CMDRMCTOAST]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Aah, luxury problems...[:D]

Now all we need is to run two monitors and split our brains in half
to focus on simultaneus war strategies of completely different era's...

[DuckofTindalos]

And this is a problem?[;)]

BTW, your sig... It's Karl von Clausewitz.

[waynec]

some first impressions. am playing scenario 4 clash of titans (or where did all these submarines come from?)

1. really look at all your bases. this is all hypothetical so there can be no assumptions like WitP solomons campaign, for example.
2. look at ship capabilities, at least classes. BBs and BCs are what we would think but check armour on BCs so you don't do an Invincible at jutland. check destroyers for asw and torpedoes as they will be used to screen the BBs from enemy destroyer attacks. check ranges (endurance) for submarines so they can patrol for a while once they get to their patrol area. i tend to run 2 per TF because there are so many. CVs (and i use that designation loosely) will be in a separate TF from BBs but i would think i the same hex to provide air cover. torpedo planes are not nice unless they are yours.
3. airplanes no need to spent a lot of time. check range and type (fighter, torpedo, etc) but all are short ranged. staying 5 hexes from any airfield should keep you out of air patrol range WHICH MEANS submarines are now scouts for the fleet.
4. i suspect invasions are not quite as smooth as in WitP because there really wasn't any doctrine or any special landing craft. you don't really have to worry much about LBA or a lot of CAP but will really have to have screening TFs in approach hexes to prevent enemy surface ships and submarines from getting in.

while the game system is the same, the assets are really different and it takes a different thought process. if you play like WitP, i suspect you will not win.
it reminds me of playing Steel Panthers with a friend. i played the history, he played the game and we had good fights (americans vs him as germans). to be different i pylled up SP2 modern with him as the germans again so instead of sherman vs tiger it was abrams vs leopard) he used the same tactics and i slaughtered him because he was thinking ww2 and i was not.

[CMDRMCTOAST]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And this is a problem?[;)]

BTW, your sig... It's Karl von Clausewitz.

After a couple years and now and it gets noticed..[:D]
No time to spell got wars to fight..[;)]

[Roger Neilson]

Judging from my experience to date in my AAR I'm playing WITP still!

Roger
[:(]

[Feralkoala]

ORIGINAL: waynec

some first impressions. am playing scenario 4 clash of titans (or where did all these submarines come from?)

1. really look at all your bases. this is all hypothetical so there can be no assumptions like WitP solomons campaign, for example.
2. look at ship capabilities, at least classes. BBs and BCs are what we would think but check armour on BCs so you don't do an Invincible at jutland. check destroyers for asw and torpedoes as they will be used to screen the BBs from enemy destroyer attacks. check ranges (endurance) for submarines so they can patrol for a while once they get to their patrol area. i tend to run 2 per TF because there are so many. CVs (and i use that designation loosely) will be in a separate TF from BBs but i would think i the same hex to provide air cover. torpedo planes are not nice unless they are yours.
3. airplanes no need to spent a lot of time. check range and type (fighter, torpedo, etc) but all are short ranged. staying 5 hexes from any airfield should keep you out of air patrol range WHICH MEANS submarines are now scouts for the fleet.
4. i suspect invasions are not quite as smooth as in WitP because there really wasn't any doctrine or any special landing craft. you don't really have to worry much about LBA or a lot of CAP but will really have to have screening TFs in approach hexes to prevent enemy surface ships and submarines from getting in.

I just finished 'Pacific Jutland' (which it wasn't really, heh), and most of this seems to be borne out. The main British squadrons I grouped as 2 Surface Combat task forces and I used the Argus in a Carrier TF to provide spotting and the occasional attack. This seemed to work pretty well.

The early planes I would add (at least in the PJ scenario) are even more pathetic range-wise; I never spotted anything more than a hex from my TF. I think I might have been spotted by a flying boat from Manilla at 2-hex range.

The submarines are everywhere; I lost a couple of cripples to Jap subs, but hitting undamaged targets they don't seem nearly as effective. I played with sub doctrine on, so they would often give merchants a pass and the smaller warships would not get more than 1 or 2 torps fired at them.

Anything that left port I would surround with a DD screen; this would help a bit. No subs destroyed, but a number were damaged with attacks circumvented.

All in all, had a good time. I am not terribly fond of the WitP engine in general, but I do like my dreadnoughts

[jwilkerson]

I just finished first 6 months of Scenario one as Allies against the AI ... report follows





One comment would be the 34.5 to 1 exchange ratio on ships sunk - I wouldn't expect to be able to reproduce that against a human !!!

[jwilkerson]

Here is view of PI after 6 months. All Luzon bases have been re-captured. While 2 Indian divisions were used as final assist - there were sufficient PP and time to use 1 USA Div instead - don't know why I didn't - probably just lazy !

And again, I would hardly expect to reproduce against a human - if human Japanese player meets resistance on Luzon, human will massively reinforce - AI did not and paid the price.

[jwilkerson]

And final picture of China/ Korea ... China and Korea were cleared early and easily ... Japanese did reinforce Tsingtao with 2 divisions - they were destroyed as well. Would expect human to evacuate any place they could be hit by Chinese Army or to have house rules preventing Chinese Army from engaging Japanese Army.









Next I will look at S1 from Japanese perspective and then look for PBEM campaign ! All in all I find this a whole lot of FUN !!! driving ships around without having to worry about airplanes - and seeing subs act like subs !!!

[Tankerace]

2 QUestions.

1. What scenario
2. Did you reinforce PI with Brits? If so, that is why you beat them back. So much for trusting players to play reasonably historically.... [:D] Oh well, Im ripping out most of the Brit/Indian formations, so that should even it out.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

2 QUestions.

1. What scenario
2. Did you reinforce PI with Brits? If so, that is why you beat them back. So much for trusting players to play reasonably historically.... [:D] Oh well, Im ripping out most of the Brit/Indian formations, so that should even it out.

1. This was S1

2. Yes - but in hindsite could've accomplished same purpose in same timeframe with US 3rd Div - just was lazy and used Brits instead. But PBEM human would never allow Manilla to hold long enough - IJ would reinforce massively immediately ... no reinforcement no matter who .. would arrive in time in real PBEM game ...

[Tankerace]

I'm just curious.... but how would you get the 3rd transferred, loaded, and shipped to Manila in the same timeframe? Against several IJ divs?

Still, I'm making a few tweaks that should help.


Amazing how we get one result in beta, and different results in theory. You'd think we invented the P-39 [:D]

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I'm just curious.... but how would you get the 3rd transferred, loaded, and shipped to Manila in the same timeframe? Against several IJ divs?

Still, I'm making a few tweaks that should help.


Amazing how we get one result in beta, and different results in theory. You'd think we invented the P-39 [:D]

Well for one - I waited until it became clear that the AI attack had stalled. I did nothing special. Just retreated everyone to Manilla - then AI came at Manilla with 1 Div, 1 Bde and 2 SNLF ( I think ). It wasn't enough. Waited a little more ... became clear that AI would not reinforce ... started casting around for something to do ... assemabled shipping brought one Indian division to singapore .. unloaded .. built it up ... brought in another to singapore .. built it up .. brought in an HQ and some arty ... then finally said ... heck we're going to Manilla ... and we went to manilla ... I guess I point is I did not rush them to Manilla on day 1 .. it was at least 3 months maybe 4 ... if instead moved 3rd Div as soon as PP allowed .. it would've arrived about the same time in Manilla.

If it is possible to tell AI to send 1 more division to Manilla .. so ensure it falls .. this would help S1 where player is US. I don't know how to do that ... increase VP of Manilla ?

[Tankerace]

Not sure, I'll play around. Sometime when I have gone on the offensive as the US, I got smashed, and then Manila fell easily. I suppose its one of those things that can go one way or the other.