Gen.Hoepner vs. Hawker, Mare Nostrum

[String]

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

If you manage to hold air superiority and get supplies to vladivostok then you might just hold the place

If he concentrates his air force in Manchuko i don't stand a chance of holding air supremacy over my land. I've run a test: all the Soviet fighter groups at 100%CAP over Vladivostok,( something around 340 fighters...actualy flying say 200/250). 4 Zero Daitais are able to achieve easily 3-1 kill ratio ALONE! If supported by some 100 oscars and 100 more nates, followed by 300 bombers, Vladivostok AF gets closed at the first attempt, my air force remains grounded and stops existing in the next 3 days of costant bombings.

Gotta try with few spits, but i guess they cannot change the course of this particular war theatre

ah, but what was the zero bonus in your test? Try testing when the zero bonus has expired?

[Andy Mac]

Personally I would try the following if he is going to give you a month- six weeks to prep.

1. Sub transport a few Seabees into Vladivostock if you can (a fragment from the EAB on Manila is a good start and a fragment of the art as well and actually if you can get a support sqd from the armour as well 2 extra Bns of Stuarts are no exchange for the missing T34's but hey use what you can) they both fill up quickly and are good units.

2. Get a few heavies and some mediums and any fighters you can as well. Strings suggestion about Buffalos is a great one as they have huge range and will upgrade to Spits in June. Dont forget some Beauforts to give him some torpedo attacks in the sea of Japan.

Also if you mass some heavies you can try to close his AF's before he does the same to you.

Start building forts now and make sure you are prepping for the correct defensive point.

Dont build AF's where you are not planning on standing.

Make sure if you can that at least two or three Chinese corps are ready to cross the border when Soviet Command asks for help.

This should be a lot of fun if he actually goes for it !!!

[String]

If you make your stand at Vladivostok then set all units you can to prep for it. If I understand correctly you get 1 month to organize defence after you are activated. Great!
This means you can set up mutually supportive airfields in Vladivostok area, and gather all available ground troops there, which also means that most of the supplies in soviet area will be drawn to there. Which would be good. Supplies will be very important in that campaign. Naturally, set all of your airgroups to 90 or 100% training right now. A few points of exp will still be better than nothing.

What else.. um. you gotta make a stand at Vladivostok, because it is worth too much points imho to lose.

oh and, isn't most of the zero production located at Gumma? Which should be in range of b-17's. You can night bomb his production to 0 within a week imho. And killing his Zero production should hurt

[Arstavidios]

Well, I you have one month to set up your defense before he attacks you can fly in some aircraft.

I you have bufalos that can upgrade to spits you can send them there. Spitfires are good against zeros.

4E bombers can also be a good idea but the Japanese can sen enough airpower to crush whatever you have there.

[Gen.Hoepner]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/21/42


Nothing happened today, except for a heavy air-bombing over Medioen that closed the AF.

Nothing else. 10 enemy units are massing at Kragen.

About Russia....

Vladivostok? Are you sure? I've seen that Moses had always invaded at Byalivostok( whatever), so cutting the railline that brings supplies to Vladivostok....

Forts are going up...slowly but rising.

About fragments...i don't think it's feasable: Manila will surely fall within 1/2 weeks.....so it's difficult( almost impossible) to do that.
Do not know...guys...he can mass 500,000 men.....how can we hold?

Yes, i've done the test with the zero bonus[:@]....i know, i'm an idiot[:o]

[Gen.Hoepner]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/22/42

Another quiet day. He started the zero training program from Singapore. Soon i'll start training my unit in China.
The only news of today is a shock attack of 2 japanese sourrounded Ind. Bdes in China...they got repulsed with heavy casualities![:D]
Soon those two units will be annihilated[;)]
Then my aircobras shot down 3 nates over Changsha without losing a single plane[8D].

However it's official: he's going for RUSSIA. He announced me that soon he'll activate my units[:@]

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Day Air attack on Changsha , at 45,37

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 18
Ki-30 Ann x 9

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-27 Nate: 3 destroyed[:D]
Ki-30 Ann: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged[;)]

Allied aircraft losses
P-39D Airacobra: 3 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-30 Ann bombing at 2000 feet


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Ground combat at 44,39

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 15950 troops, 206 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 19886 troops, 170 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
2420 casualties reported[:D][:D][:D]
Guns lost 40

Allied ground losses:
64 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

[String]

Hmm, well the logic would be that if you have air superiority you could sneak in some US transports with supplies. That's why I suggested sending in some lone transports (15+ in singe ship TF's over a period of few weeks) and hiding them in the Ohotsk sea, out of japanese search range. Chances are he doesn't have a lot of naval search in the kuriles now and you could get most of them through. 15x7k is over 100k supplies.

[Gen.Hoepner]

ORIGINAL: String

Hmm, well the logic would be that if you have air superiority you could sneak in some US transports with supplies. That's why I suggested sending in some lone transports (15+ in singe ship TF's over a period of few weeks) and hiding them in the Ohotsk sea, out of japanese search range. Chances are he doesn't have a lot of naval search in the kuriles now and you could get most of them through. 15x7k is over 100k supplies.

Ok String, but then? I mean...let's assume i can move all my forces to Vladivostok so that i can hold for a while. What's next? Doing that i'll leave the whole USSR to Japan that will be able to conquer it with a pair of divisions, while my sorrounded units struggle in the siege of Vladivostok. What's next? I mean...what's the mid-long term strategy? If i lose the flexibility I'll simply lose the match. I have no way to get there with my American forces ( ships and Divisions) before late 43, and with the whole USSR he's gonna win anyway, even if he doesn't get the VPs for Vladivostok.

Do not know...i don't like the idea of a long siege.....

What about redeploying my forces somewhere in Siberia and use the Russian AFs to strike Japan?...yes..i know...this will leave Vladivostok and 1200 VPs to Japan....[&:]

God: i don't know what to do[:(]

[Gen.Hoepner]

I have a question for you guys:

In your opinion...how many Assault points will he be able to move to Russia by May? Assuming that Java and Manila are already fallen?
Let's start from the 9500/10,000 Japan has in Manchuria at the beginning of the match...how many more?

And with forts at 9, AF and port at 9...wood terrain...how many APs will i need to hold Vladivostok?...assuming it's well supplied, obviously.

[Bliztk]

The problem that you have going into "Fortress Vladivostok", is that Russia is very weak in the CD department. Only 76mm, so if he goes smart he can slip a TF with Yamato, Mutsu and Nagato to clear the CDs and then bomb you with all the Japanese navy, thus skyrocketing you dispruption and morale.

Other unrelated comment is that comparing the OOB for the Manchurian scenario and the OOB for Scen 15, Russia is missing something like 15,000 APs as reinforcements.....

[String]

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

The problem that you have going into "Fortress Vladivostok", is that Russia is very weak in the CD department. Only 76mm, so if he goes smart he can slip a TF with Yamato, Mutsu and Nagato to clear the CDs and then bomb you with all the Japanese navy, thus skyrocketing you dispruption and morale.

Other unrelated comment is that comparing the OOB for the Manchurian scenario and the OOB for Scen 15, Russia is missing something like 15,000 APs as reinforcements.....

Vladivostok has 14" CD guns, and quite a few of them. IF i recall correctly ofcourse.

Regardless, Hoepner, if you split your forces then imho you are going to lose anyway. From Vladivostok you can atleast strike at the home islands and do some damage. Meanwhile, when he concentrates his forces vs Vlad, you can harass him in south.. A carrier raid vs Palembang for example, 5-6 cv's can really level the places oil production I bet. An early consolidtation in the solomons, etc.

Face it, if he IS going to kill you in russia, it might as well be in Vladivostok from where you can atleast rely on outside help and bomb his industries for a bit. I don't have witp installed currently, so can you give us a nice screenie of the vladivostok area, and the airfield sizes of the bases there?

[Andy Mac]

I reckon 3500 AP should be enough if 100% prepped with supplies immune from bombardments and as long as neutral skies.

if he brought 15000 AP's thats only 4 to 1 i think wooded is worth 2 : 1 and isnt it 1 extra levle for every 3 levels of fort so 3500 x 5 total 17,500 AP's now the difficulty is ifhis bombardments disrupt your forces or his enginneers get lucky and manage to knock down 2+ levels of fort or he manages to get air superiority then 1:1 is not that hard to get.

Any of these will start to reduce your ability to resist but it will be a long siege.

And if he has brought in 7,500 non Kwantang army AP's they have to come from somewhere and that somewhere is China....it has to be

OK so if he is going to strip China you need to go on the attack.

I would do the following immediately.

Move as many Heavies to India as possibel and get enginneers and an aviation regt to Ledo ASAP and cover it with Fighters. From Ledo using damn near every heavy and transport you can find you can transport about 800 supply point to China a day its called SUPER HUMP !!!!!

Get an RAF Gp HQ and SEAC there as well.

Air tran all 3 Enginering Regts that Britain Gets to China starting now or ASAP they arrive !!!!

(And send at least one of the West Coast Engineering Regts to China via pp transfer and if any armour or arty is available and you have pp points send that to Chungking as well)

If you still hold Burma make sure you hold it if you dont send any forces you can to China.

Once you are 100% sure he is going for Russia i.e. he has activated it Air Tran 3 India Corps and 2nd UK Div to China to spearhead the assault on Canton, Hong Kong and any other city you can get to. (3 US Corps can come via pp points if you want to hold 3 India Corps in India) This HQ is vital for the good leader you can place in command.

If he wants to play land war in Asia instead of WITP so be it.

Choice 1 he doenst take enough force to Russia....result stalemate.

Choice 2 He brings enough you attack in the south and retake Malaya / Canton with a US/UK Spearheaded Chinese Juggernaught.

[:D][:D][:D]OK I may be getting a tad carried away but the principal is sound !!!!

Andy

[Gen.Hoepner]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/23/42

Another quiet day.
He keeps bombing Medioen in Java, but he's not attacking yet.

KB still at Batavia.

In China my aircobras are doing just great against his nates! Today 6 Japanese players shot down over Changsha with no losses on my side.[8D]

Russia....
Here's the map.
All Soviet base forces have 8in. CD guns, plus some 152mm guns. Not that bad. He's gonna lose some ships if he dares to attack by sea...[;)], plus i'll keep some bombers at Imam, ready to strike back...and we know that beauforts can be nasty if some lucky hits get through!
If he moves some units from China i'm gonna counterattack, for sure. What's strange is that it doesn't seem to be moving back his units at the moment...he's coming with some 20 units towards Sian and he has more 13 units stuck in the swamps north east of Changsha, with some more 15 units east of Ichang...[&:] Where he's going to take the units for Barbarossa? From Southern Area HQ?????? That would be just fool!
Anyway, i'm not going to leave India undefended. So for the moment all those units remain there.

If he really goes for Russia i'll try to counterattack whereever possible. Malasya, Solomons, NG...DEI...whereever...he cannot be everywhere with his zeros and the KB,after the zero bonus is gone, won't be so unvulnerable anymore!

The problem is that i'm still puzzled about Vladivostok....pull everything there or mantain a certain degree of flexibility?...that's the point[:o]

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Day Air attack on Changsha , at 45,37

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 23
Ki-30 Ann x 8

Allied aircraft
P-39D Airacobra x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-27 Nate: 2 destroyed[:D]
Ki-30 Ann: 3 destroyed[;)]

[Bliztk]

Your problem is that you cannot move those BF. They have 8inch* guns and thus they are static.

152mm CD simply bounces off Yamato, Nagato and Mutsu armors, once he clears the guns, he can start using the other BBs and the CAs,CLs and DDs. He has Chankungfeng, a 3(6) port near for damage control.

But reitiring to the northern wastes also frees up the Japanese navy to do nasty things, like convoy interception or other type of raids.

So its a hard decision, if you go to north you can go for a fighting withdrawal to get time BUT you keep KB free.

Or you can stand at Vladivostok thus tying at least his surface forces, but your demise will be faster here.

[Gen.Hoepner]

Your problem is that you cannot move those BF. They have 8inch* guns and thus they are static.

152mm CD simply bounces off Yamato, Nagato and Mutsu armors, once he clears the guns, he can start using the other BBs and the CAs,CLs and DDs. He has Chankungfeng, a 3(6) port near for damage control.

But reitiring to the northern wastes also frees up the Japanese navy to do nasty things, like convoy interception or other type of raids.

So its a hard decision, if you go to north you can go for a fighting withdrawal to get time BUT you keep KB free.

Or you can stand at Vladivostok thus tying at least his surface forces, but your demise will be faster here.

But i'll keep my bombers and torpedo bombers at Imam and Nakhodka....like i've done in Java( there i haven't been lucky, but unluck doens't last forever hopefully). He's gonna risk if he comes with his BBs, both because a lucky hit of the CD guns can always ruin your day and because of the allied bombers. He can obtain the same result simply gaining the air superiority and bombing to dust my defences. In Java when he came closer with his naval assets he went back with two fishes in a CV and one in a BB...[:D]

However i've almost made up my mind. I think i'm going to play my style: Flexible
I'll keep a mobile defensive army at Imam, so that i'll be ready to reinforce Vlad or Blagovwhatever in less than a week, depending on the direction his attack will take. This army will be used like fireestinguisher...like the german panzer corps during 43-44.
I don't think Russia is going to hold or last long....so i gotta think about something in order to get those 1200 VPs back in my hands by 12-31-42....


Sidenote: Manila is going to fall in a couple of days....[:o]

[String]

Hm, I'm not sure about the fire extinguisher role. Your army there ain't no german panzer corps. Neither in quality nor mobility. And you are woefully outnumbered.

And are you sure Vladivostok or Nahhodka don't have 12" or 14" CD guns? Because there were some there historically + numerous smaller batteries.

[Andy Mac]

Its you choice GH but I do think forting up somewhere with your entire army prepped and dug in is better than trying to fight mobile when you are so badly outnumbered.

I agree with String the Fire extinguisher role only works if you are strong enough and I dont think you are

Andy

[Gen.Hoepner]

Your points are sound and clear guys. And i totally agree. But what if the Japs will follow Moses's Strategy and advance towards Blagovy.... ? If i move everything to Vladivostok and he manages to cross the river at B and conquer the place, my supply line is broken. South of that city there are nothing more than 100,000/ 150,000 supplies, spread around the different bases.
If i was him i'd attack here. Then send 2000 APs the get the rest of Russia and the other 14,000 to Vladivostok, while my air force will drain russian supplies with daily bombings.... It would be then an easy job to neutralize russian fighting abilities. While, if i keep a strong army at Imam, i can probably be able to understand with some days in advance where he's going to attack en masse, and so, using the railway, be able to move the bulk of my forces where real problem arises.

And no....there isn't anything bigger than 8'' CD guns....thinking of sending an American Fort ( payin' pp points) to the Far east command....i know it sounds gamey, but under the present conditions Japan going for THIS underpowered Russia is gamey too imho...or at least not fair.

What d'u think?

[String]

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Your points are sound and clear guys. And i totally agree. But what if the Japs will follow Moses's Strategy and advance towards Blagovy.... ? If i move everything to Vladivostok and he manages to cross the river at B and conquer the place, my supply line is broken. South of that city there are nothing more than 100,000/ 150,000 supplies, spread around the different bases.
If i was him i'd attack here. Then send 2000 APs the get the rest of Russia and the other 14,000 to Vladivostok, while my air force will drain russian supplies with daily bombings.... It would be then an easy job to neutralize russian fighting abilities. While, if i keep a strong army at Imam, i can probably be able to understand with some days in advance where he's going to attack en masse, and so, using the railway, be able to move the bulk of my forces where real problem arises.

And no....there isn't anything bigger than 8'' CD guns....thinking of sending an American Fort ( payin' pp points) to the Far east command....i know it sounds gamey, but under the present conditions Japan going for THIS underpowered Russia is gamey too imho...or at least not fair.

What d'u think?

Yes, transferring an american fort there, (in case it works, try it out in some other scenario before you do it) should not be gamey, as there were atleast 3 14" and 4 12" guns present, + probably more.

On your worries about supply line. It's going to get cut one way or another. IF you retreat all your forces to Vladivostok during the free month you are allowed, and IMHO you should be just able to get them all past Blagowhatever atleast, then most of the supplies should be withdrawn there as well. If the american fort ploy works, then do it immediatly, 60 days is what it takes to get there.

If it doesn't work then defending vladivostok is going to be hard. I suggested vladivostok knowing that there were good coastal defences in place, but apparently there are not. sad. So another, off sea location might be needed. I still like vladivostok because of the ability to send in supply ships, naturally getting them past japanese is bloody hard, but sometimes you might get lucky.

[Gen.Hoepner]

I've tried to spend PPs for an american fort. It just doesn't work[:(].
I'll have to rely on those 8in Guns.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 03/24/42

Today Manila fell. Almost 80,000 brave allied soldiers are killed or taken as Pows. McHartur has vanished....some say he's reorganizing the partisans on the mountains...some more say he just escaped during nighttime on a fast submarine[:D]
Now Hawker is free to send more 200,000 men to finish the Java campaign.
Then Russia...as he keeps telling me.

A Jap sub attacked and sunk today near Cairns.

He's not using anymore his zeros in Java for escorting missions...probably i'll be able to sneak some fighter groups to Sosarbaja in the next days...[;)] I'm still waiting for a chance of using my beauforts....as soon as he gets closer with his capital ships...

In China an air battle over Ichang between Nates and p-36s....i prefer the p-39s strangely[&:]
Soon Sian will be attacked. 13 jap divisions are moving towards the city. Quite confident however. Till now i've always been able to repulse his attacks and the supply situation keeps getting better[8D]

Score is almost 3-1 ( ALMOST!)
With Java i doubt he's gonna get to 4-1...he's gonna need Russia



PROBLEM WITH MY CV AIR GROUPS!!!

2 out of 5 Wildcats groups, based At Darwin, have been downgraded from 27 to 13!?!?!??! Same for 2 Devastator groups...from 15 to 7!?!?!?! WTF!?!?!?!?!
Any tips????[:@][:@]


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Day Air attack on Soerabaja , at 23,66

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 47
Ki-21 Sally x 163
Ki-49 Helen x 40

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 destroyed, 21 damaged
Ki-49 Helen: 2 destroyed, 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Catalina I: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
182 casualties reported
Guns lost 7
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 31
Airbase supply hits 11
Runway hits 163

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ASW attack at 49,104

Japanese Ships
SS I-29, hits 7, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*[8D]

Allied Ships
PG Swan
MSW Cairns

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Ground combat at Manila

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 222956 troops, 1535 guns, 531 vehicles

Defending force 58333 troops, 186 guns, 114 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 0) [:(][:o]

Japanese forces CAPTURE Manila base !!!


Japanese ground losses:
5331 casualties reported
Guns lost 170
Vehicles lost 13

Allied ground losses:
76763 casualties reported
Guns lost 233
Vehicles lost 65