BoB wish list

[Hard Sarge]

That was a simple test to see if 88/41 and or the twin 128mm guns worked

I put 100 88's and 55 128's at a radar site that was off the beaten track, removed all other guns that were there

I flew a raid of 100 + B-25's at 19,000 (a little higher) and the rest was one big B-17 raid also at 19,000

pretty much a normal alt raid

it was a decent test as it didn't draw any GE fighters, and all damage was by Flak guns

in real terms, that is one Heavy defended Radar site, those twins can only be places in critcal areas, so they would never show up at a Radar site, and the 88/41's are the good ones !

they were knocked down planes, 2 kills, 17 damaged, 4 kills, 26 damaged, 3 kills, 16 damaged

plus had tons and tons of crashes as they flew back home

but as a test it did show what we wanted to know, the guns that were added, work

maybe a little too well

[otisabuser2]

Cheers HS,

think I was rather vague.

What I was wondering was, if you have old 88's and the new 88's does the game fire each battery at the bombers OR does it decide it's a high alt attack, and pick any convenient heavy battery ?

I think you may now be able to test this.

Have we had this site before? It's about German flak sites.

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/germa ... _guns.html

regards Otis

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: otisabuser2

Hi Ron,

On 1, I'm hoping this won't actually happen from now on as all but 3 of those scottish hydro dams were built SINCE the war. We should be looking for a better spread of POWER targets across the UK.

On 2, Yes I think there's scope for some more extra units IF we can include more plane types.

There are two FAA squadrons worthy of inclusion. One in Gladiators one in Fulmars ? ( need to re-check ).

Don't recall any Bomber Command units. Are there any to consider ?

There were three Coastal Command units, attached to FC for shipping escort duties. The issue with these is that they had Blenheim dayfighters. So another aircraft type, but one that I suspect may be of little actual use ?

Tell me what you think.

Point 3, Coastal shipping. The convoys through the Channel we all but finished by game start ( Aug 13th ). The Germans did spend a considerable effort still on shipping recon, minelaying and so on.

Would like to factor in warship flak into naval bases.

regards Otisabsuer

My library is all packed up for my move but there are lots of internet sources. Here is one and it list 804 and 808 squadrons which operated Gladiators, Fulmars and Martlets during the BoB. I'll see If I can access the right boxes and find the books I have...some great sources.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

That was a simple test to see if 88/41 and or the twin 128mm guns worked

I put 100 88's and 55 128's at a radar site that was off the beaten track, removed all other guns that were there

I flew a raid of 100 + B-25's at 19,000 (a little higher) and the rest was one big B-17 raid also at 19,000

pretty much a normal alt raid

it was a decent test as it didn't draw any GE fighters, and all damage was by Flak guns

in real terms, that is one Heavy defended Radar site, those twins can only be places in critcal areas, so they would never show up at a Radar site, and the 88/41's are the good ones !

they were knocked down planes, 2 kills, 17 damaged, 4 kills, 26 damaged, 3 kills, 16 damaged

plus had tons and tons of crashes as they flew back home

but as a test it did show what we wanted to know, the guns that were added, work

maybe a little too well

oh yes.....i know they work. I had previously set up some test scenarios using BTR to observe 88 and 105mm AA gun at certain altitudes. Ouch was the word. [:D]

oh yeah...then there was that unfortunate little sweep i tried on Speedy using P47's........

[Hard Sarge]

OB
well, with out some kind of Message being sent, I don't know how we could really test a site using 88/88-41's and see if both were fireing or not

[otisabuser2]

Hi HS,

OB
well, with out some kind of Message being sent, I don't know how we could really test a site using 88/88-41's and see if both were fireing or not

Would you be able to ask the guys doing the code this one ?

Two reasons spring to mind. Firstly in BTR the game starts with 88 at a site. Is it worth me adding more heavies of a different kind, or ought I just add bulk standard 88 there for effect.

Secondly, to judge whether it is worthwhile adding such refinements to BoB.

regards Otis

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

OB
well, with out some kind of Message being sent, I don't know how we could really test a site using 88/88-41's and see if both were fireing or not

why not just place only that weapon type at the target site and launch an attack?

[otisabuser2]

why not just place only that weapon type at the target site and launch an attack?

I'm open to ideas Nik.

How will having only ONE weapon type there test if both types fire when there are TWO types there ?

regards Otis

[Nikademus]

I guess i'm not understanding the problem correctly. (which can certainly happen when your at work sneaking a quick skimming peek at a thread hoping the boss don't come over and go "Hey Nik...can you look at th_ SAAAAAYYYYYY whats that you got up on your computer screen?"

"uh.....research on behalf of a customer?" [:D]

Idea -

How about first testing one or both guns indiv with the same attack force (numbers and height) then run another test with both guns and see if there's an noticable difference in the flak results?

[Hard Sarge]

okay how is this
same plane types, same target

50 88/41 nothing else

2nd mission, same rules but
50 88/41
50 88

[Hard Sarge]

2nd mission
odd, damage over target was not as bad, but the flight home was murder

[HMSWarspite]

Problem with one off tests is we don't know the degree of random variation. Faster to look at the code I think. Or do the test 10 times and look at the results. Then do 10 more etc!

[otisabuser2]

Just remembered.

Would like to have the pilot nationalities displayed correctly in the CW units. We have Canadians, Australians, S Africans etc in the RAF units, but all get overwritten as British. Similarly We have British pilots in Polish units who get overwritten as Poles.

The pilot list is something like 80% historical on the RAF side and a flag is in there for nations, but ignored/overwritten. Shame [:(]

regards Otis

[otisabuser2]

Another issue. The plane strength of RAF units is fixed in game to 15/16 planes. This should actually be approx 22/24 aircraft.

Curiously, this would work both ways. It would mean the RAF have more chance of launching a 12 plane squadron, pilots permitting.

Conversly, the LW will have more chance of destroying RAF fighters on the ground.

regards Rob

[Odin]

I want to have an editor for Bob, to create my own units and aircraft[:D]

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: otisabuser2

Another issue. The plane strength of RAF units is fixed in game to 15/16 planes. This should actually be approx 22/24 aircraft.

Curiously, this would work both ways. It would mean the RAF have more chance of launching a 12 plane squadron, pilots permitting.

Conversly, the LW will have more chance of destroying RAF fighters on the ground.

regards Rob

not so sure OB
most of the reading I been doing the last few weeks are all stating the 16 plane squadron

Plus DBS is saying all though the war, the FC squadron size should be 16 ????

[otisabuser2]

Original:HARDSarge

Plus DBS is saying all though the war, the FC squadron size should be 16 ????

Did he ? I thought he said....

DBS said:

Ever since 1940, the aim of an RAF fighter squadron was to try to generate 12-16 aircraft for any squadron sized task. As more aircraft and pilots became available, reserves of both would be increased.

A Squadron would have more aircraft than it intended to use at once, because some were always being repaired or in maintenance.

I'm about to leave work now ( in my own time ), but will try and post some figures tomorrow morning.

regards Rob

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

ORIGINAL: otisabuser2

Another issue. The plane strength of RAF units is fixed in game to 15/16 planes. This should actually be approx 22/24 aircraft.

Curiously, this would work both ways. It would mean the RAF have more chance of launching a 12 plane squadron, pilots permitting.

Conversly, the LW will have more chance of destroying RAF fighters on the ground.

regards Rob

not so sure OB
most of the reading I been doing the last few weeks are all stating the 16 plane squadron

Plus DBS is saying all though the war, the FC squadron size should be 16 ????

okay, again
what is your point
in BoB, the squadron size looks to be up to 24 planes, most squadrons have 23 or more pilots, 12 are ready to fly, and 12 are being repaired or on standby

DBS says the idea was to have at least 12 to 16 planes ready to fly a mission each day, so far, everything seems to be matching what he says

what is it you think we should have ?

since you are talking about the LW having a better chance of killing planes on the ground, I took it to mean BoB ?

in BTR we have a 24 +3 set up, should that be lowered to more like the 15th AF squadron size

[otisabuser2]

On the first turn, as your display shows, the full strength units have 22-24 planes ( 12 + reserves ). This is all well and good.

As losses occur this drops to a max of 16 aircraft. Never more. Here's the clarrification from the BoB 1.02 readme file.

(6) Aircraft Replacements
An RAF unit will only receive replacement aircraft when its total number of aircraft dips
below 16. So, for example, if a Spitfire I unit has 5 available aircraft and 11 others
divided between the various other states (i.e., refueling, in transit, etc.) this unit will
not receive any additional aircraft until its total number is reduced below 16.

This IS what actually happens in game.

[Hard Sarge]

isn't that the whole point of the battle ?

the programmers already give the GB, over strength Squadrons at start, and a over strength stockpile of planes, along with a overstock pilot base

what more do you want ?

you really got to take some heavy losses to get down below 16 planes in each squadron