The Tutorials

[thegent]

is it just me or has anyone else had trouble with the game tutorials?

the window says "click here" but does not indicate where "here" is.
sometimes it throws out a red line to show you but not all the time.
makes it rather like the blind leading the blind.

[JanSorensen]

Hi thegent

It does indeed seem to have been bugged in the beta patch (v.1.071b). In the official version (v.1.040) its working well enough though for me.

Could I ask you to confirm if that fits your experience, please?

I have added your report to the bug list. Hopefully it can be fixed soon. Thanks for the heads up.

[graf spee]

I had just the same problems.
Both with the game"out of the box"-European version- the 1.004 -as with he latest 1.007 patch.
Regards
Bob

[JanSorensen]

Thank you for that feedback. Its being passed on to the programmer to hopefully fix soon.

[thegent]

hi guys

jan, i refer to the out of the box version
i will check the 07 patch forthwith and let you know

[JanSorensen]

thegent

It seems the US 1.040 has a working tutorial (mine does anyway) while the international 1.040 and the beta 1.07x do not work properly. Most unfortunate.

[Joel Billings]

The international version that has localized text is already at the 1.040 level. It would not be good to download any official Matrix patches over this international version as the Matrix (US) patches are not yet in sync with the international version. We assumed you could try using the 1.070 beta patch with the localized version but since we have not tried to sync it yet with the international version, some problems may result.

Jan, when you say the international version does not have a working tutorial, do you know this as a fact and that it doesn't work if used straight out of the box, or could this be due to users placing the US 1.040 patch on top of the international version by mistake? If we determine that the international version tutorial is not working out of the box, we need to try to figure out ASAP what's wrong. I'm hoping it's just a problem with users patching when they shouldn't, but I don't have enough information at this point to know that.

[thegent]

in the 07 patch it seems ok until the window "To enter movement mode so you can move some units, left click on the unit here to select from the forces in this region."
3 things stand out at this point.
1st, i now see the fading colour change in western germany. this does not jump out and bite your face off like a tutorial should do
2nd, why show 2 unit types that both do the same thing? this is very confusing when you first start.
3rd, the tutorial window should be movable

many many people wont RTFM first so the numbers on screen are missleading too.
i think the root problem is that the format of the tutorial has been written by a well informed player who is overqualified to write for a newbie's needs.
i have seen this problem over and over again with many games. put it this way, take a five foot tall maze made of hedging, the tutorial is written by a six foot tall grown up man, the newbie is two foot tall and in a push chair. the man can see where to go without thinking and has forgotten what is like to be in a pushchair.

[JanSorensen]

Joel,

That could be the reason indeed - patching with the US 1.040 - you are quite right that I dont know that for sure. Its something to check obviously - and in either case the beta 1.07x is showing the same problem.

[graf spee]

Jan, Joel
It is impossible to patch the international version with the 1.04patch
There is a problem with the serial numbers.
So that can not be the problem with the tutorial not working properly.
I had this problem with the tutorial to and I was unable to instll the 1.04 patch
Will be checking later tonight if there is still a problem for the tut.with the 1.07 patch.
BTW
I received this message from matrix

Erik Rutins at 12/1/2005 4:37:02 PM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Information for Owners of the International Release
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello everyone,

This is intended for customers who purchased the international retail release of Gary Grigsby's World At War. This was recently released in retail stores outside North America. We've received a few support queries that touch on the same topics, so this FAQ should be helpful.

1. The international release is already v1.040. Therefore, the v1.040 patch is unnecessary. If you download the v1.040 update and try to run it, it will not recognize your serial number, this is because the international serial numbers did not yet exist when this patch was created. Since your version is already at v1.040, this is not a problem.

2. The beta v1.071 online play patch does now include the international serial numbers and this update will work on all international installations. However, an earlier version of the v1.071 beta did not include these numbers. If you downloaded the earlier version, please re-download the new international v1.071 beta from our Members' Club and you will find it works with your serial number.

3. All future updates will support both the international and North American releases of Gary Grigsby's World At War. Whether you purchased online or in a retail store, regardless of country or region, the future updates will work on all installations. Also, installations are compatible for online and PBEM play regardless of where they were purchased, as long as they are updated to the exact same version level.

Thanks for your support! Enjoy Gary Grigsby's World At War.

Regards,

- Erik


----------- End of Message -------------

The message can be located at:

fb.asp?m=1000833


This message is located under:

Category: New Releases from Matrix Games - tt.asp?forumid=147
Forum: Gary Grigsby's World at War - tt.asp?forumid=105


regards Bob

[Joel Billings]

Based on further information, we think that the pointer lines in the tutorial may not be showing up in some cases on some hardware configurations. We're not sure how common this problem is yet, but are investigating it so we can fix the problem. If you are not seeing lines that point at the part of the screen being discussed (especially when you are told to click on something), please report that here and let us know if you are using an ATI card or if not, what graphics card you are using. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[graf spee]

Well
I think it might be a good idea if there was an experienced player willing to post a sort of step by step first turn explaining the hows and why's.(is that good English??)
It is at least confusing to get started for a novice player like me.
Especialy with al these different versions and manuals.
Now would't there be some nice American willing to get those Europeans started with the game?
I convinced quite some friends of mine (axis@allies players-chess players)to purchase this game as I think it is a good introduction into wargaming.
But still, a good tutorial for new players is IMO a fine idea.
Regards
Bob

[thegent]

I am using an ATI Radeon9250 with the latest catalyst drivers downloaded just now.
yes i still believe the tutorials to be a bit too minimalist for the newbie...
...but i also think they are working the way they were intended too.
sorry but this just does not work.
the light and dark fading of the active area is way too subtle to show up and the red lines need to be much thicker.
my first posting was an initial newbie gut reaction to the tuts as they are now. now i know a bit more about the game i can see the intentions but as i say they are not very newbie freindly.

[thegent]

hi sorry but the production tut is actually useless.
it is very offputting to begin the tut in the movement phase because it looks like you are being told to end the tut before it has begun. you never actually say that you are beginning in the movement phase.
i have read the manual from cover to cover and i still dont know a hell of a lot about the game play.
simple things like where do resources come from, do they grow on trees.
this is what i mean about things being written by experts who have forgotten what beginners need to know

please take what i am saying as constructive critisism, i am only trying to help you make the game a success.
first impressions stick, and right now mine are rather low.
at this point in time i should at least be able to hold my own in the game, unfortunately i feel like a private ryan and not a hitler.

[JanSorensen]

While I wont deny that the tutorials could be better I definitely do not agree that they are useless.

I find that learning to play this game properly goes in stages.

1) Try the tutorials
Along with looking at the map this gives you a rough idea on what to expect and lets you start playing against the AI without consulting the manual. Unless you are experienced in the field of similar board/war games alot of questions will remain as the game is complicated.

2) Read the manual
Having tried the tutorial and goofed around with the AI a little you can now begin to read and understand the manual. This will let you dive deeper into the game and enable you to properly fight the AI.

3) Play some games against the AI
You are now beginning to understand the game and most of its details. You will likely run into problems that the manual does not properly explain so you come here to ask the community. In particular amph assault is not too well explaining in the manual, unfortunately.

4) Play PBEM
Once you feel like the king of the world having beat the AI silly you embark on the real game - namely playing other people. Expect a rough awakening if you think you can use the same strategy that beat the AI hands down - expect the unexpected.

So, certainly both the tutorial and the manual have some flaws and omit some importent details - but I believe those are minor flaws in particular because this forum is quite helpfull.

As for your concrete problem with resources:

9.1.2 PRODUCTION POINTS
Each turn before the German player turn, every undamaged Resource Center on the
map will create one Resource Point (Resource Centers with any damage will not create a
Resource Point).

Not the most detailed explanation I will give you that - but this is how it works.

[JanSorensen]

Just an idea. Maybe a player would want to create a better tutorial. I likely wont have time personally but I believe it should be possible after looking at the tutorial files to flesh out the current tutorials some more or even create a new one.

[thegent]

is it any wonder you cant find things in the manual when e.g. resources are called production points.
playing the game does not explain how to increase ability.
the manual is all what something does, no hints or tips are given on how to actually better ones ability.
again you talk about the need for prior experience. there is no fun involved if you have no idea how to get better with it.

[JanSorensen]

thegent

I am not sure what you mean by "ability". Do you mean your own ability to play the game - or the ability of your units?

If its the former then I suggest simply playing through the game a couple of times against the AI to get a feel for the game and then post for a PBEM opponent. You will be learning and improving while playing. Just accept that it takes some days or even weeks to learn how to play - and then more months to master it. To me thats part of the fun.

[thegent]

i mean a combination of the two.
please remember that you guys know how to drive the game implicitly.
example: i have checked the repair screen every turn, i got lots of red marks but no explanation of how to get rid of them. the manual has about 5 lines about the repair screen
the centre figures in the production screen go negative and stay that way, again no hint as to how to rectify the situation.
what to you may be fun might well be purgatory to someone else.
i might as well throw away the manual and spend my life in your forum asking questions
how is a pbem game going to help?
the AI runs so fast you cant see what it is doing anyway.

[JanSorensen]

thegent

Its only 7 months ago I started playing this game. At that time I also had to learn what everything meant. So, I know that the tutorial and the manual both have some shortcomings but I also know that its possible to overcome those. As for the manual - its actually pretty damn well written considering how complex this game is. Its very well worth reading from cover to cover several times after or while you are playing.

PBEM will help because you can discuss the events with your opponent and thus pick up some tips. You will want to have beating the AI a couple of times first though.

Lets take the repair question.
- Are you playing with advanced or normal supply? I suggest playing with normal supply initially - though eventually you will want to experience the full game by using advanced supply.
- Make a habbit out of doing your repairs during your movement phase. Bring up the repair screen and click on the wrench for the infrastructure you want to repair. Keep in mind that each click costs 5 supply - so dont repair everything just because its broken. For example: There is no/little reason to repair the rails in Denmark, and the rails in the Netherlands and Yugoslavia are fine with just one level of repair.

Feel free to ask more questions if anything is still completely unclear.