WITP2: The Struggle Against China 2011-2018?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Widell

ORIGINAL: BlackVoid

I really loved Harpoon, I wish the plug was not pulled on the sequel.

As for a war against China - it is very unlikely. US ground troops in Asia? Bad idea. On the seas China is totally outclassed atm. Even if there is a war, a western trade embargo would pretty much ruin China.

Well, that´s not entirely true! The Harpoon community is alive an kicking and releasing Open Beta's for several releases including online play and a lot more

Have a look at Harpoon III etc at this link

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I've always wanted to play a Harpoon like sim based on a fictional late 1950s conflict. All those cool first generation Cold War toys.

In the new releases there´s a 50's database available, and it has a whole bunch of scenarios. Use this link and you´ll find scenarios and databases from WWII via the 50's and 60's through the 70's and 80's and all the way to 2015 [&o]

/Widell

Whoooa. This looks like something I could get into. Thanks for the link![&o]

[Cpt.Buckmaster]

I think a limited war with China could happen. I doubt we'd ever set foot in China herself, due to their overwhelming land forces, but there could easily be a sea/air/limited ground war fought.

Remember Vizzini from 'The Princess Bride'?

Ha-ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! -the most famous of which is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia", but only slightly less well known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian, when *death* is on the line!". Hahahahahah

China has been quietly buying lots of vessels, both above water and below, from the Russians. They want to be able to eventually counter the US Navy, but they're still working on dealing with our aviation I believe.

At any rate, there's plenty of scenarios that could be played with here. Whether or not its a sure-thing that this could happen isn't as big of a deal... it's just fun to speculate.

I think the concept is doable if the game was well thoughtout and the premise was semi-realistic. Like someone said, though, the game engine would need some updating first.

[rtrapasso]

A few years ago, the USN did some major war-games with China as the main antagonist. The Chinese side won using some innovative tactics (putting several key ships out of action by use of large, high-tensile drift nets which fouled the props on some carriers and subs, iirc).

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

A few years ago, the USN did some major war-games with China as the main antagonist. The Chinese side won using some innovative tactics (putting several key ships out of action by use of large, high-tensile drift nets which fouled the props on some carriers and subs, iirc).

Great, give em ideas.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

A few years ago, the USN did some major war-games with China as the main antagonist. The Chinese side won using some innovative tactics (putting several key ships out of action by use of large, high-tensile drift nets which fouled the props on some carriers and subs, iirc).

Great, give em ideas.

Yeah, well - it might. Remember that the IJN was encouraged by some of the US wargames showing that a sneak attack of Pearl Harbor could be done.

[Ron Saueracker]

Even better you could start the Chinese army in North Dakota and have it try to escape too.

Tom Hunter

Hmmm...how could this be? Are you assuming that the Chinese could have gone through 2-3 provinces heavily defended by Canadian rednecks and then manged to cross the mighty Canadian/USA border?[:)] Even with the "beachead" the chinese have in Vancouver (Chinatown) this is a stretch. All that open space with little population might actually freak them out too.[X(]

[rtrapasso]

All that open space with little population might actually freak them out too.

Covered by the Chinese Agarophobia rules![:'(]

They probably got there from direct descent from orbit.[:D]

[Mike Solli]

Yeah, we'll never learn from our mistakes, will we?

[Cpt.Buckmaster]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Yeah, we'll never learn from our mistakes, will we?

Not as long as the current White House administra....whoops!

Nevermind. [;)]

[durnedwolf]

For the Game concept, Have China work on two fronts. Let them push into Russia while also taking on Korea/Japan/Vietnam.

Russia would/could team up w/NATO. China, with their new space program, could sneak-attack all non-chinese satilites in an attempt to take out the GPS-dependant, high-tech, American Navy...

Bwaa-ha-ha-ha!

[BossGnome]

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon. But honestly, I think a trade war with the west would cripple her (and america!) America WAS self sufficient, but now with its huge trade deficit, it NEEDS people to give it cheap goods (aka: china), and china NEEDS people to buy its cheap goods. Both countries need each other, and basically, if there ever was a chinese american war, who would benefit most?

RUSSIA [:D]

You guys should read Emmanuel Todd: Le Déclin de L'Amérique (translated into English i think its something like "The downfall of America")
This guy has a pretty original view in that he expounds that in the next 50 years the new superpower might actually be russia. Russia right now is one of the most oil-rich and self sufficient countries in the world. Over 60% of its trade is conducted with former satellites (Ukraine, Khazakhstan, etc), and so if Russia can just grow again to the point where it can exert indirect influence over its past satellites, it could in fact regain a lot of its lost power, especially if china and america are meanwhile busy holding knives at each other's throats...

[Ron Saueracker]

If Canada had some spine there is no reason we could not be of some importance. We have an abundance of resources yet we export them like third world countries do. Retarded.[8|]

[demonterico]

What if scenarios based on hypothetical possibilities, no problem. Great potential for fun.

A real US war with China, what would be the point? An American invasion of the Chinese mainland is highly unlikely. A Chinese defeat of the US Navy is also highly unlikely, at least the way things stand at present.

This does not even consider the nuclear deterrents. I have no doubt that the US has the nuclear ability to completely eliminate China. What I don't know is the ability of China to respond to such an attack.

There are two linked issues to consider when the future possibility of war is being contemplated; energy and economics. War is hugely expensive, a massive waste of resources, and certainly not a cost effective way to resolve political differences. Niether the US or China can afford such a conflict. For the modern world, energy is as critical as water to the survival of a society. At this point in time energy = oil. Currently the nation that controls the oil, controls the fate of man. There, in a nut shell, is the reason for US war in Iraq.

The age of opposing battle lines drawn across continents is over. Warfare of this type is follwing the battleship into the history books. Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Cong, Osama bin Laden and Alcaida are showing us the look of future wars.

[rtrapasso]

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon.

Actually, i had read (or heard) they bought a carrier from Russia (that was "demil-ed") that was supposed to be made into a floating hotel-casino, but they have proceeded to fix her up for sea duty and try to get her to work as a carrier again.

[niceguy2005]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

If Canada had some spine there is no reason we could not be of some importance. We have an abundance of resources yet we export them like third world countries do. Retarded.[8|]

Canada is one of the finest, most ethical countries in the world, IMO. Just because it doesn't wish to exploit all its resources immediately, does not make it weak. Just because it doesn't aspire to be the most politically influencial (or oppressive) forces also does not make it weak. Yet it does maintain one of the highest standards of living in the world, maintains its own unique culture and has yet to be the victim of a terrorist attack. At times, I think the U.S. could learn something from its northern brother.

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

If Canada had some spine there is no reason we could not be of some importance. We have an abundance of resources yet we export them like third world countries do. Retarded.[8|]

To be honest, I think that may have more to do with Canada's population (or relative lack thereof) compared to her size. A quick Google check shows that the US state of California has about the same population as your entire country. You guys need to breed faster Bud! [:D]

[CobraAus]

Whoooa. This looks like something I could get into. Thanks for the link

guess who's is going to release Harpoon Classic 2005 Commander's Edition (HCCE)

fall 2005 -- Matrix

Cobra Aus

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon.

Actually, i had read (or heard) they bought a carrier from Russia (that was "demil-ed") that was supposed to be made into a floating hotel-casino, but they have proceeded to fix her up for sea duty and try to get her to work as a carrier again.

Yeah but it was only a Kiev which operationally speaking wasn't really much of a carrier with half the "flight deck" taken up by missile launchers and a little leftover room for a few of those crappy VTOL planes the USSR used. Wouldn't have probably been much of a fuss in a head to head matchup with a US CVBG.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Rob322

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

I remember hearing somewhere that china planned to build their first carrier fairly soon.

Actually, i had read (or heard) they bought a carrier from Russia (that was "demil-ed") that was supposed to be made into a floating hotel-casino, but they have proceeded to fix her up for sea duty and try to get her to work as a carrier again.

Yeah but it was only a Kiev which operationally speaking wasn't really much of a carrier with half the "flight deck" taken up by missile launchers and a little leftover room for a few of those crappy VTOL planes the USSR used. Wouldn't have probably been much of a fuss in a head to head matchup with a US CVBG.

Don't think the Russians were too happy, but then again, maybe turnabout is fair play. The US gave the Russians many megabucks to decommission the Typhoon SSBNs. They took the money and used it to repair and operate them instead - with their missiles still programmed for US targets. I don't know if/when the US stopped this idiocy.

[Rob322]

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

ORIGINAL: Rob322

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso



Actually, i had read (or heard) they bought a carrier from Russia (that was "demil-ed") that was supposed to be made into a floating hotel-casino, but they have proceeded to fix her up for sea duty and try to get her to work as a carrier again.

Yeah but it was only a Kiev which operationally speaking wasn't really much of a carrier with half the "flight deck" taken up by missile launchers and a little leftover room for a few of those crappy VTOL planes the USSR used. Wouldn't have probably been much of a fuss in a head to head matchup with a US CVBG.

Don't think the Russians were too happy, but then again, maybe turnabout is fair play. The US gave the Russians many megabucks to decommission the Typhoon SSBNs. They took the money and used it to repair and operate them instead - with their missiles still programmed for US targets. I don't know if/when the US stopped this idiocy.

At least for awhile. From what I've read, most Typhoons spend time in the yard waiting to be scrapped although they still run their Delta IV's in and out. As for being targeted on the US, didn't we sign a treaty stating this wouldn't be so? It was always sort of a silly treaty anyhow, both sides could always re-target the missiles if they wanted/needed to rather rapidly. I guess it was just in case someone turned a key the wrong direction that millions wouldn't die.