Expert opponent wanted to play germans 1941

[whollaborg]

Challenge,

I am looking for an expert and dedicated opponent to fight 1941 campaign, vanilla ver. 3.3. (or if my dear opponent prefers - we could use some mod).

I have played my last three games against humans as germans and won all of those before the blizzards, and now i'd like to fight against the horde of invaders as i prefer defensive stettings.

I propose attached House rules, those are from the last game i played with Agent Smith - and we found those pretty good. There's attached list of bugs and issues those house rules are planned to work with.

Of course i am willing and happy to negotiate on the terms and houserules.
My estimate is the I could play 5-10 turns per week as average.

If you think yourself as WIR expert, [:-], please contact me or reply this thread to discuss about the terms of a very hard game.

-Savanniperkele


Settings:
Me - U.S.S.R.
? - Axis
1941 ver 1.3

House Rules:
1. A corps can only change HQ before it has been special supplied (Bug #1- special supply is limited by Operational Points in a single HQ and Issue #1).
2. Each HQ may air attack any single enemy Corps/HQ only once per turn. No single enemy Corps/HQ may be air attacked (interdict or bomb AF) more than 3 times per turn. Any airgroup can fly only one airmission per turn (Bug #6, Issue #4).
3. A corps must have x+1 Mobile division sized units in it to plot more than two squares of movement where x=number of Infantry division sized unit in it (Issue #5, Issue #6).
4. Usage of naval transportation is limited to 3 stack points per turn. Destination hex must be a port (Issue #8).
5. Players cannot change a structure of command and Hitler\Stalin leadership (Bug #2, Bug #3).
6. Players can change a production of no more than one tank and one airplane factory per turn. Players cannot change a production of factory with delay.(Bug #5).
7. Usage of bugs #8, #9, #10, #11 (players has to set “human production upgrade control”), #12, #13 (65000 railroad points) is cheating.
8. (Issue #16) Finnish forces cannot attack but can bombard Northern
Leningrad (40/6). The Soviets are required to garrison North-Leningrad
with minimum 3 division sized corps. If this corps is withdrawn (only
in full size) Finns are allowed to attack Leningrad City with all
means in range of other House rules.
-Any airgroups operating from Finnish soil can comission all the same
attacks that airgroups in normal Axis HQ's are allowed. Finnish and
other axis airgoups can be mixed in any HQ.
-If Axis capture and hold 44/6 untill next Axis turn the Finns are
allowed to attack with all means in range of other House rules.
-Finnish forces are allowed to enter Soviet territory and engage in
combat IF Leningrad (40/7) is captured, Finnish forces are allowed to
enter Soviet territory and engage in combat but they must remain on or
above the 15th parallel. Exept 5 full divisions which can be deployed
under other Axis HQ's/Corps. IF Moscow is captured all finnish
restrictions are removed.
-IF Soviets re-capture and hold for an axis turn one of the cities of
Pskov, Minsk or Odessa with an army or corps (not partisan) all the
Finnish forces in "south" must be withdrawn to 5th or above parallel
in two axis turns.
9. Training bomber fleets with air transporting missions in the
back-lines is prohibited. (Issue #17)





List of bugs and issues:

BUGS

B1: Special supply through renaming
A corps can be special supplied repeatedly if it is renamed.
B2: High command leader change
Stavka and OKH can be removed and placed again; this changes their leaders. However, if a player does this he will no longer receive new formations.
B3: High command circumventing
A circular order of command can be established among HQs with the Alt-H command, thus circumventing higher command completely.
B4: Free transfer
All units assigned to HQs with zero OPs can be transferred out at no cost.
B5 Factory delay reduction
A factory with a delay level over 4 can be converted, reducing the delay to 4.
B6 Fighter bomber repeated interdiction
If an interdiction mission is conducted, all fighter-bomber groups have their "u" marker removed and can be used again to interdict.
B7 Repeated attacks stop
A player can have overwhelming odds against a repeated attacks hex but these will stop if other combat takes place elsewhere.
B8 Half-way saving
If a player saves during the turn and restores the game, he will get extra reinforcements, entrenchment, readiness etc.
B9 Restarting the turn
A player (especially Soviet) can restart their turn to influence the following: leader resignation; unsuccessful USAAF missions; weather
B10 Editors
The save files are weakly encrypted, making it possible for players to use editors to affect the game stats directly.
B11 Fast production change
Under computer control, a factory will upgrade its production with only a delay of 1, even if it has just been changed to the previous item. This makes it possible to change production in just 2 turns instead of 4 for items that can be upgraded to.
B12 Assigning enemy units
Players are able to change the HQ assignment of enemy units.
B13 Fantastic railroad
Players can gain 6500 railroadpoints

ISSUES
I1: Mules
A corps can fight under the command of a different HQ than the one that gave it special supply.
I2: Fighting HQs
HQs can be stuffed up with units and placed on the front line for overstrength defense.
I3: Excessive production of heavy tanks
A player can produce unhistorically high numbers of heavy tanks and use them to great effect.
I4: Repeated interdiction
It's possible to bomb a single hex with single groups of bombers, to great effect, especially if combined with B6 above.
I5: Isolation at low cost
Small formations can be placed in mobile corps sent to cut the enemy's lines of supply.
I6: Fast infantry
Mobile corps with few mobile divisions and a lot of infantry can plot 5 and will restore their readiness quickly, especially during German blitz supply
I7: Minor allies in the west
The German player can send minor allied formations to fronts they could never have fought on.
I8: Naval transport
Units can be sent or retrieved from a city in naval supply using rail transfer.
I9: Exclusive air supply
An isolated corps can still advance and attack if it is well supplied from the air.
I10: Airfield vulnerability
With only two exceptions, airfields can be hit anywhere on the map, even at great distances.
I11: Overproduction of a single type
Some items are very powerful in the game and players will produce many more of them than was historically the case. Some of the problems of these items are not reflected in the game though (e.g. the He177 had very unreliable engines).
I12: Finnish politics
Finland's war aims were limited and their troops wouldn't have attacked Leningrad or advanced very far within the USSR.
I13: High readiness shattering
The Soviets in the summer of '41 and the Germans during the blizzard of the same year shatter easily at high readiness levels. The problem is supposed to be fixed for the Germans with v3.3
I15: Extremely long marches
Divisions can be moved from one end of the map to the other without using rail points if all the corps they pass through are special supplied.
I16: Political restrictions are real and good to use - but "what would
have happened if" scenarios are always arguable. I tend to see Finnish
gov. quite agressive at the begining of the war and agreeing with most
of the goals of Hitler and there is even documents that show how
Finnish and Natzi officials agreed on horrible goal of destroying
totally the city of Leningrad as a "permanent and ancient threath to
Finland". Finnish politics definately changed more defensive when the
war started to seem lost (quite early actually).
So if you read mine proposal of Finnish restrictions you might find
those quite a good compromise still. Even added a clause for the
Soviets counterattack.
I17: Bomber formations get experience with transfer missions even thousands of kilometers away of frontlines.

Unruled Bugs and issues:
B#4: It is generally bad to have a HQ with zero Oprerational Points. So I think this bug cannot be abused.
B#7: This bug is out of human control.
I#3: See I#11.
I#7: No problem here.
I#9: No problem here.
I#10: Never expirienced this problem.
I#11: (and I#3) Mono type production is not very historical, but the reasons for multi-type producing were: 1) Nobody knew the real “stats” of new equipment. 2) Lobbies of various groups existed in both countries. 3) Concept of main battle tank was not introduced.
As we are beyond these restrictions...
I#13: Just play around it.
I#15: You have to spend a lot of Operational points for such march.

[DavidFaust]

Rule 2, limmiting airmissions for HQ's is a MAJOR advantage for Russia. Try playing without this and you will notice a BIG difference in your games. If I had more time, I would show u!!

[pyguinard]

ORIGINAL: kingtiger_501

Rule 2, limmiting airmissions for HQ's is a MAJOR advantage for Russia. Try playing without this and you will notice a BIG difference in your games. If I had more time, I would show u!!

Agreed, you are right and I think everyone will agree with this. On the other hand, on a Camp 41 game, it is impossible for the Soviets to win (...unless the german player makes mistakes). If I had time, I would both show you! [;)] If you remove Rule 2, it gets even worse!

[whollaborg]

If one of you guys is able arrange time to "show me" i am willing to let you have your jolly good show even by removing the rule that denies multiple "singleplane" attacks against single corps.

The rule has been around in my games for a good reason as every single airinterdiction seem to cause readyness losses to army/corps even if it consists of 8 fortified divisions and only couple of rumanian planes fly by. (and i have played germans in all last three of my games)

Of course all other rules as well are changeable and we could start negotiating from Lorenzos or some other rules as well..
I look forward to play against odds

And I hope that the expert [:-] one who dares to face me has time to produce some AAR as well...

[DavidFaust]

Playing a possum game with Germany skipping the 1st turn is how I would play. I would use these rules.

1. A corps can only change HQ before it has been special supplied
2. . No single enemy Corps/HQ may be air attacked (interdict or bomb AF) more than 3 times per turn.
3. A corps must have x+1 Mobile division sized units in it to plot more than two squares of movement where x=number of Infantry division sized unit in it
4. Usage of naval transportation is limited to 3 stack points per turn. Destination hex must be a port
5. Players cannot change a structure of command and Hitler\Stalin leadership
6. Players can change the production of no more than one tank and one airplane factory per turn. Players cannot change a production of factory with delay
8. Finnish ground forces cannot attack but can bombard Northern
Leningrad (40/6). The Soviets are required to garrison North-Leningrad
with minimum 3 division sized corps. If this corps is withdrawn (only
in full size) Finns are allowed to attack Leningrad City with all
means in range of other House rules.
9. Training bomber fleets with air transporting missions in the
back-lines is prohibited
10. No cheating, replaying turns or saving during mid turns

Note: If u dont like or can not follow rule 10, you r wasting your time playing against me. If you chose to use these cheats, I will give you the easy victory you are after

If I had more time, this is how I would play....

[Josans]

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele



And I hope that the expert [:-] one who dares to face me has time to produce some AAR as well...

With only 3 Pbem, you challenge everybody! Playing you soviets in wir 3.3?[:)] Im very excited you can show to me. Im not able to play 10 turns per week and I will do the AAR, even with bad english (Im from Spain ) I hope you play as well as you say! Im not still read your rules, bugs.... but you can choose the rules do you want to play....

[asa]

Hello,
I am prepared to accept your challenge, the only rule I would like to change is the one regarding air attacks and let me suggest the following:
- Air attacks/missions:
No single enemy unit and/or HQ may be air attacked (interdicted or bomb airfield) more than three times in a given player's turn. There is no limit to the number of airmissions from each single friendly HQ - which means, if the planes are there why not using them?
If you are interested pls send me a private message showing your e-mail address, so I can send you Axis turn number 1 as soon as I can.
Regards,
asa

[whollaborg]

I am flattered by the sheer amount of acceptances i receive to my (rather provocative - i admit) challenge.

As you guess i am not in a situation in which i can start a game against all of you fine fellows. That does not mean that i would not like to.

Because kingtiger_501 was the first to reply in this thread i think fair that i should play against him. I have used Possums fine mod only in unprofound ways against computer. So I find Kingtigers challenge very intriquing.

One and only problematic thing is he's willingess to skip the opening turn of germans. I had thought that Possums mod was criticized of being too easy for the Soviets as they get access to a very huge and even mobile formations quite early on compared to the vanilla 3.3.
I propose that you would not skip the Germans opening turn to really slash an open wound i have to struggle to seal [:@] as it happened historically.

kingtiger_501's condition to forbid cheating very strictly i fully agree and find unquestionable. I agree all rules he likes to use.
I send Kingtiger_501 a private message to get the game going. Hopefully we get to write some AAR soon for you.

-

Thank you all again for volunteering. Perhaps i am able to start another game some time soon after we get the game going with Kingtiger and he finds time and energy teach me a lesson [&o] or face a brutal destiny in the Soviet Steppes [;)]

[DavidFaust]

I think you missed the last part of my post...

If I had more time, this is how I would play....

If you dont mind waiting 3-6 months till a slot opens, we can start then. I only have limmited time to play games and I have ALOT of games going atm.

As Josan is regarded by many to be the BEST wir player, I would accept his offer and play him. You wont have to worrie about the limmited number of turns he sends as it will be a quick game.

[whollaborg]

Sorry Kingtiger_501,
I missed the last part for sure. (perhaps partly because of mine bad english)

If Josan [&o] is still willing to face my challenge i am ready for the game of my wirlifetime.

[Elefantinho]

Since I'll be away on holiday for a while, I've sent you my invitation for early 2006. I'm sure that by then the games against Josan and asa must be finished, so I hope I can demonstrate you how solid Krupp steel is applied to tame the communist hordes.

As for the rules, we'll have a discussion, since I don't like to read two pages every time I want to plot a panzer unit forward into the endless steppes. I'd like to keep things simple, especially since the Führer seems to have some problems respecting regulations anyway. [;)]

Regarding the AAR, Dr. Goebbels will be delighted to share your sufferings with the entire community. I'll do my utmost to make the AAR educative, but be aware that now and then I seem to have a sick sense of humor. You'll see... [8D]

[whollaborg]

About the schedule of matches,
Please accept mine apologies as i cannot start a game with all of you splendid guys at the same time. Just now we are setting up a game with famous Josan who just might teach me a lesson of humility.
After that i have had talks about game with Pyguinard too. And i might be able to play a game with him simultaneously, but its not at all clear yet.

Elefantinho,
You are warmly wellcome to lead your thinly armoured panzers to east when the time comes. But but the winter draws nearer and the russian hell might be rather freezing as the saying goes.
Again, you are wellcome mighty Elefantinho.

Asa,
I hope that you are not too offended by delay of some months before we can set up our wonderful meeting. The time will come.

[DavidFaust]

Elefantinho,
You are warmly wellcome to lead your thinly armoured panzers to east when the time comes. But but the winter draws nearer and the russian hell might be rather freezing as the saying goes.
Again, you are wellcome mighty Elefantinho.

If you want a expert in winter defences, you have found the right person. Dont be suprised if you dont shatter a german korps while Elefantinho routs your advancing army.

[pyguinard]

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele

(...)
After that i have had talks about game with Pyguinard too. And i might be able to play a game with him simultaneously, but its not at all clear yet.
(...)

When it becomes more clear for you, perhaps you would like to try a Campaign 42 game, just to change a bit?

Anyhow, good luck in your game with Elefantinho; from what I read, not only that he looks to be very clever with the german defence on blizzard turns but he also got to master synchronization of multiple corps attacks [:D]

[Elefantinho]

ORIGINAL: pyguinard
Anyhow, good luck in your game with Elefantinho; from what I read, not only that he looks to be very clever with the german defence on blizzard turns but he also got to master synchronization of multiple corps attacks [:D]

You are right on the last one. [:)] Despite following your tips, I'm still facing the same problem now and then of units not executing the third or fourth pulse. I start to believe more and more that it has something to do with the terrain since it happens only when I'm attacking over rivers or in forests. But hey, the game would be boring if everything would be predictable...

[pyguinard]

I will take the opportunity to "high-jack" this thread since Savanniperkele looks like he found his opponents.

ORIGINAL: Elefantinho

ORIGINAL: pyguinard
Anyhow, good luck in your game with Elefantinho; from what I read, not only that he looks to be very clever with the german defence on blizzard turns but he also got to master synchronization of multiple corps attacks [:D]

You are right on the last one. [:)] Despite following your tips, I'm still facing the same problem now and then of units not executing the third or fourth pulse. I start to believe more and more that it has something to do with the terrain since it happens only when I'm attacking over rivers or in forests. But hey, the game would be boring if everything would be predictable...

I only had this problem after static attacks. I would sometimes plot an infantry unit to attack in two locations without moving at all ( example of plotting orders: 09s6s) but it will stop after the second digit without any obvious reasons (supply is above 50%, HQ has op points, etc.).

Except on these occasions, this happened to me where I didn't notice that I had an HQ shattered. The execution stopped after the second digit... what a bad surprise!! [:@]

[DavidFaust]

Playing a possum game with Germany skipping the 1st turn is how I would play. I would use these rules.

1. A corps can only change HQ before it has been special supplied
2. . No single enemy Corps/HQ may be air attacked (interdict or bomb AF) more than 3 times per turn.
3. A corps must have x+1 Mobile division sized units in it to plot more than two squares of movement where x=number of Infantry division sized unit in it
4. Usage of naval transportation is limited to 3 stack points per turn. Destination hex must be a port
5. Players cannot change a structure of command and Hitler\Stalin leadership
6. Players can change the production of no more than one tank and one airplane factory per turn. Players cannot change a production of factory with delay. Production to be placed on human upgrades.
8. Finnish ground forces cannot attack but can bombard Northern
Leningrad (40/6). The Soviets are required to garrison North-Leningrad
with minimum 3 division sized corps. If this corps is withdrawn (only
in full size) Finns are allowed to attack Leningrad City with all
means in range of other House rules.
9. Training bomber fleets with air transporting missions in the
back-lines is prohibited
10. No cheating, replaying turns or saving during mid turns

Note: If u dont like or can not follow rule 10, you r wasting your time playing against me. If you chose to use these cheats, I will give you the easy victory you are after

You are in luck, 1 of my oppents has failed to respond and I have a free spot open. I hope these rules and conditions suit you.


Or if you like, we could play a 41 possum game with both sides skipping turns till mid 42.

[whollaborg]

Hi kingtiger,

I am all ready for a game, i send you mine email. Hope you are sure that you wish to skip the first turn.

[Elefantinho]

ORIGINAL: Savanniperkele

Hi kingtiger,

I am all ready for a game, i send you mine email. Hope you are sure that you wish to skip the first turn.

Now this will be game of which I'd like to see some AARs on the forum. I'm currently playing Kingtiger as Germans somewhere in end 1942 and I know he's quite busy, but if you gentlemen could post a summary every now and then on the forum it will be greatly appreciated.

[DavidFaust]

Now this will be game of which I'd like to see some AARs on the forum. I'm currently playing Kingtiger as Germans somewhere in end 1942 and I know he's quite busy, but if you gentlemen could post a summary every now and then on the forum it will be greatly appreciated.

Sure, I will have lots of time on my hands as I will be on holidays shortly.