Lunacy In The Pacific Mogami Vs. Tom Hunter

Post descriptions of your brilliant successes and unfortunate demises.

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Tom Hunter
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June 23 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

China and Burma remain quiet and the sea around Lugaville gets very noisy:



Image

3 Allied TFs went in this one had bombardment orders, the other two had surface combat orders. Inspite of being the slowest moving of the 3 the US BB TF made first contact and a huge fight resulted. There were 3 rounds of combat in the first clash:

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 13, on fire
BB Ise, Shell hits 3, on fire
BB Hyuga
CA Mogami
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 1
CA Kinugasa
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 4, on fire
CA Kako
CL Kinu
CL Kiso
CL Oi, Shell hits 2
CL Yubari, Shell hits 1
DD Shinonome, Shell hits 1
DD Usugumo
DD Shirayuki
DD Sagiri
DD Yugiri, Shell hits 1
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
BB Colorado
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 2
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Portland, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Northampton, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Canberra
CL Detroit, Shell hits 1
CL Concord
DD Edsall
DD Fox
DD Paul Jones
DD Parrott, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Chew, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Stewart
DMS Hopkins, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DMS Lamberton, Shell hits 1, on fire
DMS Elliot, Shell hits 3, on fire

Mutsu took a lot of abuse, many of those hits were 14" shells. Mississippi was also shot to peices. The Americans also lost a few old DDs damage to the Japanese cruisers and DDs was relatively light.

The Japanese must have wanted more because after the action was broken off they two sides came back at it. This time results were more decisive:

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
BB Ise, Shell hits 9, on fire
BB Hyuga
CA Mogami
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 22, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 4
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 1, on fire
CA Kako, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Kinu, Shell hits 3
CL Kiso
CL Oi, Shell hits 2
CL Yubari, Shell hits 1
DD Shinonome, Shell hits 1
DD Usugumo
DD Shirayuki
DD Sagiri
DD Yugiri
DD Ushio

Allied Ships
BB Colorado
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 8, on fire
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 6, and is sunk
CA Portland, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Northampton, Shell hits 25, on fire, heavy damage
CA Canberra, Shell hits 1
CL Detroit
CL Concord
DD Edsall
DD Fox, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Paul Jones
DD Parrott, on fire
DD Stewart, Shell hits 3, on fire
DMS Lamberton, Shell hits 19, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DMS Elliot, Shell hits 2, on fire

In addition to the trade of BBs Northhampton and Portland are badly damaged cripples now. It is only a guess but I believe Mikuma is also in big trouble, and Oi took several pentrating hits.

The American Cruiser TF never found the enemy but the crack Royal Navy TF with hand picked captains did, I can't post multiple pictures so that gets a seperate entry.
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Tom Hunter
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RE: June 23 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

Prince of Wales lead and attack on the now brightly Burning Japanese:



Image

Ship for ship this TF is probably the best in the world right now and it performed fairly well.

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Shell hits 7, on fire
BB Hyuga
CA Mogami, Shell hits 2
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 5, on fire
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Furutaka, Shell hits 3, on fire
CA Kako, Shell hits 5, on fire
CL Kinu, Shell hits 3, on fire
CL Kiso
CL Oi, Shell hits 5
CL Yubari, Shell hits 2
DD Shinonome, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Usugumo, Shell hits 1
DD Shirayuki
DD Sagiri, Shell hits 1
DD Yugiri, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Ushio, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 1
CA Dorsetshire, Shell hits 16, on fire, heavy damage
CA Cornwall
CL Enterprise, Shell hits 8, on fire
CL Dragon, Shell hits 6, on fire
CL Mauritius, Shell hits 1
CL Birmingham
DD Electra
DD Encounter, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Fortune
DD Foxhound, Shell hits 1
DD Griffin, Shell hits 2, on fire

Ise took at least 2 penetrating hits from 14" shells. Hyuga concentrated on Dorsetshire, something that was not good for that ship. Many ships on both sides launched torpedos but only one British torp hit home. The shells that hit Kinugasa, Furutaka and Oil tended to penetrate, Mikuma must have great armor 8" shells were bouncing off her belt on a regular basis.

As day dawned the Allied bomber forces hit Lugaville and Efate. The raid on Efate was unopposed, at Luganville it was met by Oscars:

apanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 43

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 45
B-17E Fortress x 31
B-24D Liberator x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 6 destroyed, 11 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
536 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 51

Cooperation between the Navies and air forces is very important in this operation, if Betty can use Lugaville then some of the cripples will surely be sunk.

The Cruiser TF that did not fight is heading back to Luganville to bombard tonight. The Allied TFs have broken into smaller forces as they head back to Noumea. 3 badly damaged cruisers with 60 float and no speed are still 1 hex from Lugaville, and various ships in different conditions are scattered between Luganville and Noumea.

Noumea is an 8 port so anything that makes it back will likely stay afloat. New Mexico, Canberra, 2 British CLs and 4 DDs will need to shipyard work in a larger base. Colorado and Prince of Wales are untouched and 9 cruisers + many DDs are intact and ready to fight.

On the Japanese side Hyuga is the lucky ship, Mutsu is gone and Ise is probably in very tough shape, she has a long trip home and may not make it. Furutaka, Kinugasa and Mikuma all got pounded including torpedo hits on the last 2. I am hoping for messages showing them sunk as well.


It does make me wish I had sent the 3 slow British BBs under Somerville, but that will have to be a suprise for another day.


Interestingly the ships involved don't seem to have gained any night combat experience. Either the ships crews are a bunch of blockheads or maybe the designers?

Regardless the Allies did pretty well, especially the US navy which managed to inflict pretty heavy damage inspite of inferior stats. Victory is going to be decided over the next few days as the two sides hunt for cripples and the ships that are too badly damaged roll over and sink. One nice thought, if Ise goes to Davy Jones then June 23rd was the high water mark for the Japanese battle fleet, it will never be larger than it was today.




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jrlans
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RE: June 23 42

Post by jrlans »

Some nice surface combat and kudos to the old US BBs they did a great job considering it was night fighting. All in all i think it was a vicotry. Even if you lose your heavily damaged cruisers they will always come back as new Baltimore class cruiser later on, also with the operational loss of 2 BBs Mog will need to divert ships to cover Luganville if he wants to keep it open
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Tom Hunter
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RE: June 23 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

Strategically I do think it is a victory, or at least a step in the right direction. Lugaville is now open to shore bombardment which is going to happen right away and that will help me shut the airfield.

But if the Ise and some Japanese cruisers do go down then it is an out and out win.

I am turning out to be pretty hard on the older US BBs, I have 4 left now. At least the last two have taken a Jap with them to Vallhalla.
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Tom Hunter
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June 25 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

China

The standoff at Changsha continues with both sides sending in more troops. Hengchow has a large army present and 12 Japanese units are to the East.

Small air battles continue to occur here and there. 6 Oscars shoot down a Lysander over Paotung is a typical encounter. In a week or two I am going to send 24 Spitfires and 32 Hurricanes to smash up the Japanese a bit but those planes are not ready yet.

Burma

The Wellingtons at Mandalay stay on strike, they will not bomb Hanoi. So I am going to point them at a closer target and hope they fly for a change. The two sides continue to stare at eachother while the British build up for offensive operations. The first Spitfire group is now fully operational at Dacca.

South Pacific

The Japanese land at Gili Gili taking a few casualties when an AP hits a mine. KB stays at sea near Port Moresby cutting off all maritime connection to Australia. Bombers from Rabaul pound the place daily. All construction on the airfield and port is halted and the efforts to build up the fortifications are redoubled.

In North Australia work continues on the airfields at Cairns and Cooktown L4 and L5 respectively. A 64 plane heavy bomber group will be sent there in 6-10 days to operate in support of Port Moresby.

Allied ships bombard Luganville on the night of the 23rd and bombers hit on the 23rd and 24th. Zeros and Oscars fight back on the 23rd but no Japanese planes take to the sky on the 24th and 55 Japanese aircraft are destroyed on the ground.

Noumea harbor is now a 9 port and is filling up with survivors of the naval battle. The two intact BBs, Prince of Wales and Colorado are formed into TFs with various cruisers and are steaming back to Lifou for another bombardment run against Luganville.

Dockside the 2nd SeaBees are loading on transports, destination Lifou they will start on an airfield there and soon be joined by 813 Airfield engineers and a base force. When the base hits L2 Lugaville will be in F4F4 range.
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Ron Saueracker
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RE: June 25 42

Post by Ron Saueracker »

Ise took at least 2 penetrating hits from 14" shells. Hyuga concentrated on Dorsetshire, something that was not good for that ship.

Ever notice that the ships tend to fire on their opposite number in the formations? This, even when it is battleship vs destroyer. Pretty complex mechanics.[8|][;)]
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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan
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Tom Hunter
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RE: June 25 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

I don't really have a problem with this. It would be entirely reasonable for a BB to fire on a big CA during a night action, and Hood even picked the wrong target during daylight.

I did find it interesting that BBs hit eachother more often than they hit smaller ships. I believe this goes back to the importance of manuever ratings in big gun combat, something that I am totally opposed to.

I thought the Brits did pretty well, they hit just about every enemy ship at least once and hurt a couple of them really badly.

Dorsetshire is at 97 float and still a couple of days out from Noumea so I doubt she will make it home. Northhampton rolled today, they were all in the 70s at start but there was some bad weather. Still no reports of additional Japanese sinkings so they may end up winning that side of the battle. On the flip side I am about to launch another big bombardment attack on Luganville. So they sunk a few more ships and I got control of the sea.

Sounds a lot like Jutland.
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Sneer
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RE: June 25 42

Post by Sneer »

damn - distibution of fire is wrong in game - especially when diffrence in capital ships is visible - but nobody even want to talk abput it.........
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Tom Hunter
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RE: June 25 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

Sneer,

Agreed fire distribution is terrible in WitP. But in a contest like the fight up above it would not be unreasonable for one of the Japanese BBs to shoot at Prince of Wales and another one to fire on a CA.

The British have 7 large ships and the Japanese have 10, but many of the Japanese ships are damaged. Some of them are in really bad shape so the battle is actually pretty even.

The British distributed fire pretty well all things considered, the Japanese did an acceptable job as well.

But in the greater scheme of things fire distribution is definitely broken, like lots of other things.
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Tom Hunter
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June 28 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

Three days without much important happening

Continued manuevering in China leads to yet more maneuvering. What do you call a stalemate that keeps moving around?

In the air I am trying for a suprise, 45 Mohawks transferred to Changsha and 24 Hawks are flying LR CAP there. For the last 3 days Japan has been sending 40 single engine bombers to hit the place with no escorts. Maybe I will score a few kills this time.

Burma has 24 operational Spitfires flying CAP over Akyab. Akyab is the site of a steady build up of Imperial troops in preperation for attacks in Burma.

Gili Gili falls to Japan, KB hangs out South East of Port Moresby and Japanese bombers plaster PM every day. PM has 70,000 supply so it will be a while before they get hungry.

Further South and East Allied ships bombard Luganville two nights in a row. Bombers smash the place daily and Efate gets its share two.

I checked losses and 33 Mavis's have been blown up on the ground, I suspect all of them at Lugaville and Efate. This makes me think that the South Pacific has gone dark for Mogami which is good for me.

SeaBees come ashore at Lifou 813 EAB and a base force are on ship one day away. Some additional troops will be pulled out of Nandi and sent to Lifou as soon as possible. I want to get the base up and running quickly.

Lifou will end any chance of the Japanese re-opening the airbases near New Caledonia and give me 4 mutually supporting bases one of which can fly fighter strikes against Lugaville and Efate. That will allow me to train the American fighter groups up to the point where they can take on KBs Zeros and once they can Noumea goes from being fairly safe to being totally invincable.


The US CV fleet starts a slow journey towards Pearl Harbor and the West Coast. The Brits will head for Aukland and spend most of thier time resting while the Americans get their next round of updates and return with the Wasp in tow. An additional RN CV and BB are at Perth heading to Sydney so when the fleet gets back it will be up to 9 CVs and 2 CVLs .

With that many carriers, some with Seafires and some with 33 plane fighter groups I think the Allies will be in postion to invade Efate and then Lugaville. That will be August or September, the first steps in a long march to Japan (or is that the first strokes in a long swim to Japan)?

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Tom Hunter
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RE: June 28 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

And something I meant to post in the last entry, here are many of the survivors of the battles off Luganville. Dorsetshire and New Orleans both rolled over and sank but Northhampton made it home. The more lightly damaged ships have already left for Aukland, some will repair there, others will be sent on to different locations.

No word on Mogami's damaged ships sinking yet but I have subs chasing some slow moving targets near Guadalcanal.

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Tom Hunter
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RE: June 16 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

I am hitting a lot of wrong buttons today, I hope I did not do that in the turn I just sent...[X(]

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Oleg Mastruko
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RE: June 25 42

Post by Oleg Mastruko »

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Still no reports of additional Japanese sinkings so they may end up winning that side of the battle.

Mog is known to scuttle his ships without wasting too many tears - something I am never able to do as Jap let alone as Allies. Perhaps his ships are already at the bottom of the sea, after being abandoned, Emperor portrait ceremoniuously removed, captain sumo-wrestled from the bridge by strongest crew member, and ship Long Lanced by the escorting destroyer...

O.
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Tom Hunter
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June 29 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

Oleg,

Do scuttled ships show up on the lost list? Regardless no more Japanese warships on the list. Annoys me to think that I did not bag any of those cruisers given the numbers of shell hits, the torpedo hits and the long trip to Rabaul.


The big news of the day is in China:

Ground combat at Changsha

Japanese Shock attack
Attacking force 506635 troops, 4973 guns, 227 vehicles
Defending force 186130 troops, 884 guns, 0 vehicles
Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 7)
Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 6
Japanese ground losses:
30342 casualties reported
Guns lost 443
Vehicles lost 24
Allied ground losses:
8194 casualties reported
Guns lost 123

But the fort goes back to L7 the same day and the Chinese are unfazed. The troops at Hengchow are going to go over land in the hopes of kicking some Japanese hard and forcing a retreat. Before you get too excited the Japanese army loss total went into the 890s from somewhere in the 850s. In other words casualties are mostly disruption.

Further North a bombardment attack is going to hit Tsingdao, if the place is weakly defended then maybe I can grab it. Mogami can't be strong everywhere.

India-Burma If Mogami is strong everywhere in China then he must be weak here. More units unload in Akyab as the long slow process of preparing for an offensive move starts up.

One strange and disturbing thing I have noticed is that the unit fragments that will not airlift easily, the howitzers, are becoming the parent units for Chinese divisions that are otherwise sitting in Dacca or Chadpur. This concerns me because I am afraid it is a prelude to the units dissapearing. Hoepfully I am wrong about that.

In the South Pacific more attacks were launched on Efate and Luganville. Here are samples, these happen just about every day.

apanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 1
B-26B Marauder x 51
B-24D Liberator x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
393 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 45

My subs up near Tulagi ran into a large Japanese ASW force, I am not sure why.

Japanese troops invaded Nidini the last of the small island outposts that I have been using as Catalina bases.

North Carolina, Repulse, Houston and a few DDs leave Pearl Harbor heading South.

Allied strategy for the South Pacific is to keep the battle fleet near enough to support New Caledonia if needed and send the CV fleet to Pearl and San Francisco for repairs. The British fleet carriers, USS Long Island and HMS Hermes will remain in the South Pacific.

You would think that a Luxury brand company would pick a prettier looking carrier when they bought the naming rights, wouldn't you.


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Oleg Mastruko
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RE: June 29 42

Post by Oleg Mastruko »

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Do scuttled ships show up on the lost list? Regardless no more Japanese warships on the list. Annoys me to think that I did not bag any of those cruisers given the numbers of shell hits, the torpedo hits and the long trip to Rabaul.

They do show but only after couple weeks (random time). It's one of the benefits of scuttling - your opponent is not sure whether you lost the ship (that, and you deny 10% VPs to your opponent). Generally you should scuttle if you have cripple that obviously won't be saved but I have psychological problems doing it even with ships 99/88/20 five hexes from port (hey, *maybe* she can make it).

O.
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Tom Hunter
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RE: June 29 42

Post by Tom Hunter »

I can't scuttle either, but maybe I should learn to.
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Oleg Mastruko
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RE: June 29 42

Post by Oleg Mastruko »

In lunacy series we are Allies. For Allies with their damage control there is almost always some hope of saving the ship. Unless, errr, there is no hope [:D]

Also, it does not matter if we give away 10-20 VPs to Mog by not scuttling. It matters much more as IJN. First your damage control is bad and realistically many moderately damaged ships will NOT be saved and should be scuttled. Also if you go for AV as were Mogs original plans in lunacy series then *every* VP counts.

If you don't scuttle doomed ship, say BB Yamashiro worth 135 VPs IIRC, you effectively give away 13,5 x 4 = 54 VPs to Allied player. So if I were Mog I'd scuttle like crazy LOL [:D]

O.
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witpqs
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RE: June 29 42

Post by witpqs »

Also, even without scuttling, enemy ships only show up right away on 'sunk ships' if your forces witness them go down. Otherwise, a random delay of up to 60 days (or is it 90?).
AmiralLaurent
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RE: June 29 42

Post by AmiralLaurent »

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Also, even without scuttling, enemy ships only show up right away on 'sunk ships' if your forces witness them go down. Otherwise, a random delay of up to 60 days (or is it 90?).

No, every ship sinking on the map without scuttling will be shown in the replay and then displayed in the sunk ships list. Even if the ship capsized off California and the closest Japanese is half an ocean away. At least in PBEM.

By the way it seems to me that ships value 2 or 3 points will still give 2 or 3 points (same amount) to the opponent, even when scuttled. So no interest to scuttle them at all. Ca nanybody confirm that ?

The delay for scuttled ships to appear in the opponent sunk ships list is between some to 60 days.

One possible benefit for scuttling ships is that the ship's captain won't die... even if I have not verified that he is again available for a command later, or if the game keeps him in command of the sunk ship. So not dead but still unavailable.

I don't scuttle much too, only when the situation is hopeless (it tends to be with Japanese ships rather often, it's true). IMOO scuttling ships should save more points, as after all the crew is saved and that was also important for everybody during the war. As someone said in another thread, we players are sending cyber-soldiers to a cyber-death, while real commanders sent true men to a true death and so were more cautious than us. If scuttling saved 40% or 30% of the ships points, I think most ships will be scuttled as they were historically. With 10% it is just better to hope for a miracle.
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rtrapasso
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RE: June 29 42

Post by rtrapasso »

enemy ships only show up right away on 'sunk ships' if your forces witness them go down.

ALmost true. As has been commented on in the support forum by others, (and i can personally confirm) - ships sunk during surface combat phase may not show up on the sunk ship list (at least in AI games, but maybe in PBEM). Unknown if this is a bug or a "feature". Fortunately, this is a relatively rare event.
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