WITP Complexity

[jirik]

Hi,

please, is here anybody who is also playing Paradox's Victoria? I am considring to buy this game (not exactly, still choosing between WITP, WPO and UV) but I am a little bit scared by complexity cited in most reviews.

I was able to manage Victoria which is the most complex game I have ever met.

I know the games are different and thus I am comparing apples and oranges. But I believe I can get at least rough estimation if I am able to get to the game by comparison to Vicky (or maybe to any other game).

Thanks a lot for you responses

J.

[Sneer]

WITP is much more intuitive
but may be even more complicated
If you managed Victoria go for WITP

[Sardaukar]

After few bouts with tutorial, straight to the Grand Campaign !! That's how I did it...[:D] WitP is intimidating and with bit difficult interface, but it doesn't take long to get used to how to play it. Getting to play it well takes few years, I think.

[Marten]

same as me tutorial, and then grand campaign against japs.

[Spooky]

Great ! Another Vicky player [:)]

If you managed to handle Victoria then you should be able to handle WITP. The WITP learning curve is quite steep (like Victoria's) but after a few weeks, it becomes really easier.

Spooky (waiting for the Vicky 1.4 patch)

[scout1]

What's Victoria ? Where can you get it ?

Also, WitP really isn't that complex, just alot of assets with less than optimum UI which makes it seem complex. Great game.

[Spooky]

Victoria is a game released by Paradox (HOI & Europa Universalis developer) about 2 years ago.

It was not a great success because of its complexity and the lack of interest for the timeframe (1836 to 1920) but there is still a great community and the game can be very enjoyable (ie : to play as Texas during the Texas/Mexico wars or to try to unify Germany/Italy in the XIXth century)

Victoria Home page : http://www.paradoxplaza.com/victoria.asp
Victoria Wiki : http://victoria.nsen.ch/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

ORIGINAL: scout1

What's Victoria ? Where can you get it ?

Also, WitP really isn't that complex, just alot of assets with less than optimum UI which makes it seem complex. Great game.

[Redd]

If you liked Paradox's games, you'll love Witp. I bought Vicky and tried it for a while, but in the end I got disgusted with it, just like their other games. EU is decent and I fire it up every now and then, but once you've colonized the world a couple of times it gets old.

HOI was fun for a while, but with a worthless AI all the time that you spend researching and building units is wasted in the end. HOI II is a fu%$ing travesty. Not only did they NOT fix any of the problems, they screwed up some of the stuff that wasn't messed up to start with[:@].

It will be a cold day in hell before those swedish clowns get another dollar out of my pocket. Sure they have a good record of patching and staying in contact with the community, but you'd think that by now they could put out just one F'ing title that didn't need 6 patches just to make it marginally crappy.

OK, rant over. To get back to your orginal question, all that I have to say is that since I got Witp it's the only game that I want to play. The learning curve is pretty steep, but I have found that with any game once I'm past the curve I bore easily.I'll be playing this one for years to come [&o][&o].

[Big B]

Yes, WitP is coplex![:D]

[Crimguy]

WitP is a lot to digest, but once you get past the first hurdles (what do i do?), you'll fall into the endless series of mistakes and ineptitudes just like the rest of us.

Fortunately, there's over 1000 turns to figure things out.

[Rob Brennan UK]

Europa universalis 1+2 were fantastic games ! .. so deep and very informative too. helped me learn a lot of detail about the period. I never did go for Victoria as i was put off but the time frame and the added complexity of resources.

so if you had EU , you can play this game no problem, but as with chess 2-3 weeks to learn the basics .. and a lifetime to master. Also i might add , i have probably had more fun with this game than EU ( only just mind you )

also welcome to the forums even if you don't decide on Witp. you will find a lot of experienced people who played UV before Witp here if you decide for that title.

[Sarge]

The first turn in the grand campaing is TUFF ! [X(]

I had a good 20hrs + into the first orders phase [X(]


Love every minute [&o]

[Mistmatz]

I used to play a year ago when 1.03 came out. I'm playing WitP for 6-7 weeks now and I'd say Victoria is far more complex regarding game mechanics but WitP is far more complex regarding units and the micromanaging aspect. Just think about it, in the grand campaign you have to handle thousands of ships, LCU's and a/c wings, it's really a micromanagment nightmare. That is unless you like that kind of entertainment.... [:D]

My resumee is I dont regret buying Victoria and I dont regret buying WitP but I dont see any valid measure on which to compare those titles. The amount of hours played maybe but I cant count that high... [8D]

[invernomuto]

I did not buy victoria (not interested in the timeframe) but I played EU 1 & 2, HOI. I also tried HOI 2, but it was really disappointing for me, HOI I was better IMHO.
WITP is more difficult than an average Paradox game if you do not know wargames well. You have to do lots of micromanaging (units, supply, etc) and interface is far from being user friendly. It can be really a nighmare for the first weeks, even if you start with smaller scenarios. If you like japanese, like me, you'll have to deal with production, a nightmare in the nightmare!
However, it is a great game.

BYE!!!

[Knaust]

geezzz...we are very near, mate[:)]

[sanch]

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK
...
so if you had EU , you can play this game no problem, but as with chess 2-3 weeks to learn the basics .. and a lifetime to master. Also i might add , i have probably had more fun with this game than EU ( only just mind you )
...

I, too, graduated from EUII (a great game, and a decent history and geography lesson btw). If you've got EUII figured, you can figure this one.

There is one giant difference...

On the first turn of EUII, you've got nothing, so there aren't too many decisions you have to make. On the first turn of WitP, you got tons of stuff that you need to get moving now (and how/where you move this stuff is big-time important). So the first turn of WitP is brutal (as in 6-8 hours of poking around). The first time I started a campaign in WitP, I just stared at the screen and said to myself "wtf do I do with all this stuff?"

But, get past that knothole, the game flows nicely. It is more time than EUII, and things develop more slowly, but they're nail-biters none the less.

So, just click on end-turn (assuming you're playing the AI) on the first turn, and take it from there. It'll suck you in!

[m10bob]

My opinion is not to let WITP sound intimidating. If you are considering WITP, you are already smart enough to handle it.
ALL of us have started and re-started WITP several times, (because we all cheat and want to re-start once we learn a new tool/strategy we did not know about the first few times around.)
The thing is, it will stick with you for M A N Y hours, and will never tell you to "go shave", or that it has a "headache".[8D]
Glad you found the forum...
We are all here for you................
(That's right..If you get WITP, we will all come over to your house, eat your food, and flirt with your womenfolk.............).
No, seriously, if you have any problems with WITP,(or UV), we can all help you.....

[AmiralLaurent]

WITP complexity is mainly due of the number of units rather than the system. You have many thing to do, and the key is to not do all of them every turn. For example managing production is not mandatory on the first turn of Japanese. Yes you will lose some tousand of HI points and build some useless airplanes and engines, but it will make very little difference in the end. Same for setting objectives to all your units losing some days is not catastrophic.

On the other hand, learning to do all you need to do before an operation is mandatory: setting objectives to units, provide them support and supplies, gather enough shipping to carry troops and supplies, gather warships and aircraft to protect them, send in the area fuel and air support to operate the latter. One of the difficulties is that the size of the map and the "objective setting" system needs to plan the strategy in some details for 2-3 months in the future.

Once things are running (objectives set and convoys and troops moving) any turn that may be "lost" (ie you do almost nothing) will in fact be used by troops to rest, or train, or move. As a PBEM-only player now, I will rather do a quick turn and send it back to my opponent at once if I have little time, rather than delay my answer to do my turn with more time later. At least in 95% of the cases.

[invernomuto]

geezzz...we are very near, mate

Really!

I am glad to see the Italian wargaming community growing [:D]