ORIGINAL: Tankerace
Just so everyone knows I am not turning a deaf ear, but I am watching this discussion carefully. I have no problem asking Mike to tweak it, but I would rather a general player consensus as to how to tweak it.
Right now only me and Wilkerson seem interested in the topic.
Here is what we agree on.
Subs do the proper amount of damage. Torpedo dud rates and hit rates might need to be tweaked a bit but subs so seem to be a good weapon.
I would also consider adding in a message along the lines of...
"SS-16 unable to manuevar for attack on BC Hiei"
That would mean that a sub is under the surface and is unable to get into a good posistion to attack. That happened alot in real war.
Here is what I see the problem as.
Subs do not attack on the surface when any weapon is larger than an AA machine gun.
This is ahistorical and needs to be fixed. I think Wilkerson would agree with me.
Subs should attack on the surface almost EVERY time when a TF has no ships above DD class.
To add even more to the game you could base this upon several factors.
Commander rating
Agressiveness
Size of TF
Number of escorts who are actualy armed
Speed and MNV rating of the sub
Cautious commanders who are good commanders would probably not risk an attack when a TF has a few Q ships or DD present.
While really agressive commanders or bad commanders would try to attack anything no matter how many escorts were present.
Size of the TF would play a big role.
A giant TF with a few escorts would give the sub an advantage in that it could attack a merchant and probably get away before an escort could arrive on the scene.
I hope I made my posistion clear.
Using what I laid out above would do wonders for sub combat.
It would make it far more realistic and make that aspect of the game alot more fun.
Subs would not be the super weapon they are now.
The games in its current state makes it near impossible for subs to ever get sunk since they do not attack on the surface.
Using my outline above would make surface combat much more likley and balence out the sub war.
Good subs with good commanders and some luck would be able to make successful surface attacks while bad commnaders with poor luck would bite off more than they could chew and would get sunk.
What I am NOT advocating is that subs attack true warships above DD class on the surface.
No matter how awful a commander was or how agressive, they would not commit suicide.
There are my views on the issue made as clear as I can make them.
I think players with knowledge of 1920s sub doctrine would agree with me.
Using my points above or a variation of them would add alot of spice and varity to sub combat and help to make it alot more fun while balencing it out.
I never played Jutland except AI. Could be that there is a differenece between big and small scenarios due to sub and shipping density. 