AI for MWiF - Commonwealth

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: fuzzy_bunnyy

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

By the way, does WIF FE simply drop BP fractions? For example, do the Chinese, with 7 PP and a 0.25 multiple, only get 1 BP per turn? The rules are unclear to me on this point.

Rule 2.6 Fractions

basically, round to the nearest whole number, and round halves up. on negative numbers rounding "up" moves you closer to zero.

that answer your question? this leads to all sorts of interesting gamey ways to manipulate your production so as to get the most BP from the least amount of PP and to maximize oil, if playing with it.

Yes. Thank you. Now I remember reading this.

[mlees]

God work on your posts, sir.

I did not see mentioned any USSR assist options, or any BP's or rescources set aside for lend lease.

There were some AAR's I remember reading about in the ADG WiF annuals that mention some CW forces being sent to Murmansk to free up Soviet units from defensive garrison duty to operate against the Germans on the eastern front. Do you think this strategy should be included in the CW AI?

[composer99]

I did not see mentioned any USSR assist options, or any BP's or rescources set aside for lend lease.

I think you'd have to mesh the CW basic production plan with its objectives over any given period to determine what sort of aid it should be sending the USSR; I find as the CW that I'm either imperilled by invasion threats or I've got too many needs for units to be able to send much to the Russians, not to mention the difficulties of shipping resources along the Murmansk run. The best thing, if you want to send aid to Russia, is to insist on the US sending you at least as much as you sent to the USSR to keep your economy running along at full steam. If that doesn't happen then you'll be prioritizing as if your own production was no longer maximized.

There were some AAR's I remember reading about in the ADG WiF annuals that mention some CW forces being sent to Murmansk to free up Soviet units from defensive garrison duty to operate against the Germans on the eastern front. Do you think this strategy should be included in the CW AI?

As for sending troops up to garrison Murmansk - I don't think it's all that great an idea. You have to send an HQ along to do it, which is a tremendous waste of an HQ; the units the USSR will have freed up are usually rubbish anyway; and at the MWiF map scale it is very difficult for the Soviets to keep the rail lines from getting severed but it is equally difficult for the Axis to keep them that way. Plus then you're throwing an HQ and other forces off to some theatre where they're totally out of the way and not presenting a tangible threat to German or Italian interests closer to home. If you're not going to have them on the front lines somewhere then at least keep them in England near AMPHs so you can force the Germans to divert troops away from Russia, which is probably better, given the quality of German forces, than freeing up craptacular 3 combat factor Soviet infantry armies to get ground into dogmeat by Wehrmacht armoured corps.

[mlees]

Thanks for the reply's composer99. I learn a lot reading here than I do trying to solo the game.

[Froonp]

An additional concern is the type of units selected within each branch of service. For land offensives, HQ's and armor are needed. For land defense, HQ's, militia, territorials, and garrisons are very good, with infantry and AT a close second. Paratroops and marines are excellent for attacking, if their special capabilities are needed. What I am postulating here is that the strategic objectives (defend Great Britain versus invade continental Europe) dictate which types of land units are selected for construction with the build points allocated to land units.

I'd add that unless the CW is in the ropes, building the MAR, PARA, ENG, and newly available HQ is a must do for the CW.
The CW must become highly aggressive very soon, and so should build all the units that make it offensive at first opportunity.
I'd add, I don't remember if I've already said this, that I think that building 2 AMPH, one first cycle in S/O, and one first cylce in N/D 39 is a must do for CW IMHO.
More, as Composer said in his good production post.

[CBoehm]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

An additional concern is the type of units selected within each branch of service. For land offensives, HQ's and armor are needed. For land defense, HQ's, militia, territorials, and garrisons are very good, with infantry and AT a close second. Paratroops and marines are excellent for attacking, if their special capabilities are needed. What I am postulating here is that the strategic objectives (defend Great Britain versus invade continental Europe) dictate which types of land units are selected for construction with the build points allocated to land units.

I'd add that unless the CW is in the ropes, building the MAR, PARA, ENG, and newly available HQ is a must do for the CW.
The CW must become highly aggressive very soon, and so should build all the units that make it offensive at first opportunity.
I'd add, I don't remember if I've already said this, that I think that building 2 AMPH, one first cycle in S/O, and one first cylce in N/D 39 is a must do for CW IMHO.
More, as Composer said in his good production post.

In case votes count for anything here...I completely agree!

(Although I still believe that CW must also remember to garrison the pacific and keep in mind that its more important to keep Suez, Malta etc than to take Tripoli or East Afrika in 40 [;)] )

[Froonp]

(Although I still believe that CW must also remember to garrison the pacific and keep in mind that its more important to keep Suez, Malta etc than to take Tripoli or East Afrika in 40 )

My idea about the Pacific as the CW is :
41-43 : Try to keep the objectives, try to avoid loosing production (India, Australia). Don't care if the Japanese land in Australia or India, as long as they ar not in position to conquer them or to rob resources or factories therein. Fight for Singapore by trying to keep the supply open, and by fortifying it if possible. Do the same for Rabaul if possible, and for Batavia.

43-45 : Try to take back what you lost & more if possible. Think of Rabaul especially. But Taihoku is not out of reach, neither are Shanghai Manila & Port Arthur, the CW needs to think wide. Should race (discretly at first to keep receiving aid) with the USA for objectives, and should drop down helping USSR (discretly too) as soon as it menace to come back to violently. Best to conquer Berlin with UK troops !!!! God save the Queen !!!

[Davidt]

Hi Steve,

As posted by many others i am very impressed by your progress with MWIF and your updating here at the forums. I am eagerly awaiting the release of MWIF[:D].

I have been reading the forums regularly for a while but havnt really had the time to post - also the posts already made reflect the thought i have on wif (.... and more)

I would like to point out one strategy, well more an oppening move, that we in our WIF group find very beneficial for the CW.

The CW should set-up its carrier fleet in the med, even on malta. In the first impulse CW takes a naval - positions the carrier fleet, protected by the heavy dreadnoughts and the french fleet, to portstrike the italian navy - specfically the 2 transports. This can force the italian to declare war immediately. Which is beneficial for the CW as compared to letting the italian "freely" transport uinits to north africa. The downside is that this can cost a cxarrier or 2 - but as the CW you should be willing to trade navy units with italy.

If italy doesnt declare war on the CW it is worth the Us entry loss to take his transports out with a declaration of war and a port strike.

just my 2 cents

Best regards
David

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Davidt
Hi Steve,

As posted by many others i am very impressed by your progress with MWIF and your updating here at the forums. I am eagerly awaiting the release of MWIF[:D].

I have been reading the forums regularly for a while but havnt really had the time to post - also the posts already made reflect the thought i have on wif (.... and more)

I would like to point out one strategy, well more an oppening move, that we in our WIF group find very beneficial for the CW.

The CW should set-up its carrier fleet in the med, even on malta. In the first impulse CW takes a naval - positions the carrier fleet, protected by the heavy dreadnoughts and the french fleet, to portstrike the italian navy - specfically the 2 transports. This can force the italian to declare war immediately. Which is beneficial for the CW as compared to letting the italian "freely" transport uinits to north africa. The downside is that this can cost a cxarrier or 2 - but as the CW you should be willing to trade navy units with italy.

If italy doesnt declare war on the CW it is worth the Us entry loss to take his transports out with a declaration of war and a port strike.

just my 2 cents

Best regards
David

Thanks for the suggestion. I would like to have as many possibilities as I can in the AIO's bag of tricks.

One way to use your strategy is to simply threaten to perform the port attack by (1) setting up the CW navy in Malta and (2) moving them into the Italian Coast on the first impulse. Actually conducting the port attack can be decided later - perhaps against a probability table, depending on what the Italian player does.

There is a famous story about the Grandmaster chess player Alexhine who smoked cigars. In one of his head-to-head matches the rules of the match said he could not smoke at the table. Alexhine didn't, but he brought a huge cigar with him to every game and messed around with it like he was going to smoke it. Really annoyed his opponent - kept him on edge. When asked about it later Alexhine said (in Russian, I suppose): "The threat is more powerful than the act." A good thing to keep in mind when playing chess - or WIF.

[Neilster]

God work on your posts, sir.

Shouldn't there be a question mark at the end? If true, it's no wonder they're excellent. [:D]

Cheers, Neilster

[Froonp]

"The threat is more powerful than the act." A good thing to keep in mind when playing chess - or WIF.

Indeed it is damn right in WiF.
If you could come up with AI routines that would take care of that and enforce that, you'll have won something.

[c92nichj]

ORIGINAL: Davidt
I would like to point out one strategy, well more an oppening move, that we in our WIF group find very beneficial for the CW.

The CW should set-up its carrier fleet in the med, even on malta. In the first impulse CW takes a naval - positions the carrier fleet, protected by the heavy dreadnoughts and the french fleet, to portstrike the italian navy - specfically the 2 transports. This can force the italian to declare war immediately. Which is beneficial for the CW as compared to letting the italian "freely" transport uinits to north africa. The downside is that this can cost a cxarrier or 2 - but as the CW you should be willing to trade navy units with italy.

If italy doesnt declare war on the CW it is worth the Us entry loss to take his transports out with a declaration of war and a port strike.

For each strategy there should be a counterstrategy so what to do with the axis if this happens?

Some suggestions:
1) With most of teh allied fleet commited in the med, the Kriegsmarine should get active, punish the CW convoy lines, make an attempt to conquer nethlerlands S/O with assistance from the Sea.
2) You have a choice with Italy if you want to declare war or if you want to try to hide your transports in different ports and small targets preferably under some kind of antiair cover.
3) Depending on USE draw an allied declaration of war against Italy may mean US will never get into the war, so you might want to hold of DOW's on Netherlands & Denmark.

[Froonp]

2) You have a choice with Italy if you want to declare war or if you want to try to hide your transports in different ports and small targets preferably under some kind of antiair cover.

The Italian can also sail one of its TRS into a Sea Area where the Royal Navy can't harm it.

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

2) You have a choice with Italy if you want to declare war or if you want to try to hide your transports in different ports and small targets preferably under some kind of antiair cover.

The Italian can also sail one of its TRS into a Sea Area where the Royal Navy can't harm it.

Good stuff from everyone.

I like to expand from single instances to more general cases.

Invading Netherlands ---> If the Commonwealth leaves the North Sea undefended, (1) look to invade somewhere along its coastline, (2) look into attacking convoys. Same applies to other naval powers who neglect the defense of invasion coastlines and/or convoys. Of course there are caveats to these. You have to be able to sustain an invasion. It is important to not be suckered-in either.

Vulnerable transports ---> Any vulnerable naval units: (1) separate them so they can't all be attacked at once, (2) put them under AA cover when in port, and (3) sometimes it is safer to be at sea.

[Froonp]

(3) sometimes it is safer to be at sea.

Reminds me of Pearl Harbor attack.
Some might say that the US CV conveniently went at sea to protect from the raid.

Anyway, this is a valid tactic in WiF FE.
As the US, you have put a fleet in Pearl (8 BB + 2 CV), but each turn, you begin you turn by sailling both CV to some distant horizons where the Japanese can't reach.

[composer99]

quote:

God work on your posts, sir.

Shouldn't there be a question mark at the end? If true, it's no wonder they're excellent.

Cheers, Neilster

I hadn't noticed that. Amazing what a typo can do for a sentence's meaning. [;)]

[Davidt]

For each strategy there should be a counterstrategy so what to do with the axis if this happens?

Some suggestions:
1) With most of teh allied fleet commited in the med, the Kriegsmarine should get active, punish the CW convoy lines, make an attempt to conquer nethlerlands S/O with assistance from the Sea.
2) You have a choice with Italy if you want to declare war or if you want to try to hide your transports in different ports and small targets preferably under some kind of antiair cover.
3) Depending on USE draw an allied declaration of war against Italy may mean US will never get into the war, so you might want to hold of DOW's on Netherlands & Denmark.

Hi all thanks for the comments,

I can see i need to be a bit more precise when posting[8D].

The CW starst ( a 39 scenario) with 5 carriers on the european map. On the first turn sail 3 of them preferably with french surface ship cover into the italian sea zone and 2 more into the eastern med also with frenchships. That is have the entire french med navy in action and only use english ships for adjusting I.e. 7 ship stack if this can get you a higher column on the surface combat chart.

The italian player then has the option of declaring war or not declaring war.

If italy doesnt declare war!
Italy will be forced to make a combined move resulting in only 1 naval action and can therefore only get 1 transport out of the way. The italian players wish will probably be to reinforce tobruk, but given the CW carriers in the eastern med this will jeopardize the transport if italy reinforces the tobruk area. The only "safe" place to go is the western med or sail straight to tripoli. Not very attracticve for the italian player who dreams of threatening egypt and suez.
In the following impulse the CW will declare war and portstrike the italian (also in the tobruk area if Italy was recless enough to reinforce here). Leaving the transport at sea in the western med seazone is also VERY dangerous for italy as CW will have fleet reserves using the french fleet primarily for surface defence of the carriers. Given that this is the surprise impulse the italian air wont be able to respond to the portstrikes, therefore it is a bad option to try to hide the transports under some sort of aircover. Even the loss of 1 transport is a serious blow to italian ambiton in the med.

If italy declares war.
Italy will probably try to surprise the fleet and hit your carriers. Given the size of the french fleet with 1 or 2 dreadnoughts its still going to cost him and he needs a fair bit of luck to get more than 1 carrier. Even better he will be trading the italian navy for the french navy. Even if italy only declares war on the CW his fleet still has to do combat with the french fleet if it is in the same sea-zon e box as the CW fleet.

With regards to 1 above this is unfortunately true. Still the british homefleet is big enough to handle the pressure. Mainly because you rely on the french surface fleet in the med. Also the german needs to be careful with his fleet - as the CW also here you would love to swap fleets with the kriegsnmarine. aong as the kriegsmarine is intact you need to disperse your fleet over many seazones. Once engaged - even if the CW takes more losses than the Kriegsmarine - things get easier for the CW.

With regards to 3. Just put all USE start markers in the Ge/IT pool - dont most do that anyway?

We have tried this strategy (2 times - only) but its work out very well for the CW both times. This makes it very hard for italy to reinforce north africa. The italian only has the option of sailig around in the med - while the CW can take the relatively safe route around africa.

Well that was a somewhat of a big post considering i actually only meant to point out that the italian really doesnt have the option of "hiding" his transports because of the surprise impulse [;)]

Cheers,

David

[Froonp]

Port Striking the Italian Navy, preferably with the TRS & CP, is always a good idea.
However, I think that there will be opportunities to do this after the first impulse, and I don't see the need to pay the high US Entry price for that to do this in the first turn. These opportunities may also be coupled with a suprise impulse too, you don't know. Italy do not always declare war immediately to the Western Allies, so there is time in front of the Allies.
I generaly prefer, as a CW player, to try not generate bad US entry rolls (remember that each Chit removed from the US Entry pool is 1 turn more of war without the USA helping you). Anyway, opportunities may happen (I had one in our new game, and declared war on Italy with a Suprise Port Strike), and the CW must seize them, but for me declaring war to Italy right in S/O 39 is a bad idea for the CW.

[Davidt]

Im not saying you wont be able to do it later. When playing the CW it just seems beneficial to me to get italy ionvolved for as early as possible, and not give italy the time to prepare by moving corps etc. around the map. If the allies declare the war you get the added benefit of using the french fleet as "damage takers" for a longer time. Offcourse if italy declares the war, and only declares on the CW you can always then decide wether or not france wants to declare war on italy. Usually france wont - but you still get to use the french fleet as escorts i.e. sail them in the same seazone box as the cw fleet.

Obviously this is a subjective matter - and as such one of the things that make WIF a great game [;)]

/David

[Froonp]

You're precisely right on the last sentence.
About Italy being involved in the war the sooner the better, I'm not sure I agree, because it also mean it produces "high" the sooner, because Germany lends resources sooner.
But you're right, it's subjective and depends on your experience and you playing partners.