newbiw question

[scout1]

OK, I don't have HTTR, nor really discussed its merits with others. COTA is supposedly due out within the next month or so.

Other than different battles being portrayed what are the features/differences between HTTR and COTA ?

[MarkShot]

tm.asp?m=892469

[Mr.Frag]

Scout, take it from me ... RDoA/HTTR/CotA are games that once played make it very tough to go back to any other war game.

I have the first two, and apart from never being able to get better then a draw out of Yakstock (grrr!) there is nothing bad that I can think of saying and you know just how grumpy I am! [:D]

They are just so "playable" right out of the box.

Ray

[JeF]

http://www.wargamer.com/hosted/dropzone/games/cota.html : illustrated.

[scout1]

Ray,

Well we know one gaming system you didn't go back too [;)]

Isn't HTTR and COTA a semi real time approach ? If so, are the only viable game set-ups solo/ai, FtF, and/or Lan ? Basically, pbem doens't seem to fit this, from what very little I know of these games. Am I right, or what ?

[MarkShot]

No PBEM. Although it has been discussed and might some day be a possibility. The problem has always been how do work PBEM into a system which doesn't really have turns or discrete time intervals.

The game is real-time in the sense that there are no turns. It is not real-time in the sense that the clock runs at faster than 1 game minute = 1 real world minute.

---

Aside: The use of "realtime" is as varied as there are speakers. When I worked in financial systems, realtime meant market data streaming from exchange floors with maybe at most a couple of seconds of delay. But if you talk to an aerospace engineer realtime means milli-seconds and guaranteeing a response in said milli-seconds or a missile might miss the window to course correct in order to achieve a proximity kill on a target.

[Mr.Frag]

Isn't HTTR and COTA a semi real time approach ? If so, are the only viable game set-ups solo/ai, FtF, and/or Lan ? Basically, pbem doens't seem to fit this, from what very little I know of these games. Am I right, or what ?

It is more geared towards people who have a life still, you play solo against an AI (which is very skilled) or you play online (tcp/ip based) against someone else through real time pauseable play for a couple of hours instead of years. No PBEM as the flow of the game means you'd be finished an entire battle in the same time it took you to plan one turn in most PBEM type games.

If you want to get a quick view of the gameplay, google "Red Devils demo". It is really tough to explain where this style of game fits in but once you see it in action, it speaks for itself.

Well we know one gaming system you didn't go back too

simply put ... too many 20 hour days and 10,000+ posts ... gotta work to pay the bills, it was getting in the way of being employed. I love WitP but it will have to wait until I win the lottery or retire and have that kind of time on my hands once again. You know you are overdoing it when you wake up in your chair at your desk and have to open up a calendar to see what day it is. [>:]

Ray

[MarkShot]

Actually, you should just read either of my two stickied tutorials in the HTTR or COTA forums. They will take you through a game in excruciating detail. This may even work better than the RDOA demo, since the demo for the most part leaves it up to you to figure the game out. In my work, I spoon feed the reader.

[scout1]

google "Red Devils demo

Frag,

Any place that is safe to get this where I JUST get the demo and not allow of "other" crap ?

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: scout1
Any place that is safe to get this where I JUST get the demo and not allow of "other" crap ?

Here you go :

18 MB at ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/PC/pcgamew ... ltDemo.exe

Fair warning : Mark's correct - the demo doesn't do the current engine any justice and you're better of reading his AAR - in fact, I didn't like RDOA, it felt too cramped, too limited, too little of everything. HttR was the game that sold me on the engine.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
In my work, I spoon feed the reader...........

To promote the game, a movie is beter than a demo. But it needs to be different from the earlier movie.

The movie ought to be:

- here we are using our mouse to click here and using hot keys to display this

- here we are reading the info and interpreting it thus thereby demonstrating game mechanics to newbys

- here we are deploying troops

- here we are putting in an assault


A movie can be downloaded and be circulated among gamers outside the wargaming community. A "sticky post" will remain here at Matrix.

[MarkShot]

Joe,

Well, a video production comparable to the sticky thread might as well be delivered on a DVD. It would be too large to download. 30-60 second movies of game play can easily be 50-100Mb.

Also, I don't have the expertise to produce a movie nor the time. It took a lot of effort just to do those sticky threads. Eddy was looking at turning them into PDFs, but I guess he got side tracked.

I think the most important thing is to get word out about the game and basic features and where you can find out more. Those who are really interested in such a game will endeavor to find out more and there are resources to do so. Those not really interested will not watch more than 60 seconds of video before being turned off by a 2D map and counters. Or they will show up here reading nothing in the forums or Matrix's site and post "What is COTA?" and then be gone.

No, amount of quality presentation will turn non-potential customers into customers. The important thing is simply to make sure that potential customers know where to go to find out more about the game. I think it was for reasons similar to these that PG abandoned producing demoes for future games.

---

For HTTR, Marc had taken some screens and copy I did and added music and some interactive elements. It was quite nice, but you weren't going to get a good sense of the game from it; just the very basic features and a quick glimpse. I am not sure whether that sold copies or not. I do know for a fact that the AAR thread did. {Of course, to what extent I do not know.}

In summary, we all do what we can and Dave, at least, gets more than he pays for.

[Mr.Frag]

The demo is quite dated but seeing a combined arms / unit attack form up and execute all based on you giving one simple command to the HQ unit is what sold me instantly on the game. All the still pictures in the world does not give that task justice. In any other game I have every played that "simple" task here would be hours of clicking and planning [:D]

After seeing that in the demo, then you can read through Mark's post with a much better feel for what is going on.

Ray

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
Also, I don't have the expertise to produce a movie nor the time. It took a lot of effort just to do those sticky threads. Eddy was looking at turning them into PDFs, but I guess he got side tracked.

?? - Afaik both the COTA AAR and the HTTR one got done, you mailed me about some needed changes in the HTTR one - which I'm still planning on having a look at. The Cota one just needs the posts made after it was done.

If you think it's important and can help with the pr side of things I'll update both.

oh, and I'm looking into doing a movie too, but first there's a game to finish [;)]

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

[MarkShot]

I thought you had gotten side tracked, since we said that we would get these things up on Matrix and then that was that.

I don't know if the PDFs will help promote the game anymore than the HTML that's up already. Maybe Dave will have an opinion on this.

Also, Gary had a really polished PPT he was working on, but I haven't heard anymore on that. I think that made a better downloadable presentation as it had more flash and was higher level.

[MarkShot]

Hmm, a movie ...

How about Yakstock versus Mr.Frag with you narrating and Dave acting as the referee?

And Ray could handle peanuts and popcorn sales.

[Fred98]

Find Hypersnap.

They have software that allows you to take screen shots and then edit them.

They have other software that allows you to take a movie screen shot and then edit it.

The effort required to take a movie screen shot is the same as required to take a still screen shot - ie Print Screen

The only edit that is required is to add text "we are doing this to achieve that" etc.

Ultimately this is the best way to promote the game. The "movies" use by First Person Shooter games is not at all what had in mind.

Note that the "sticky posts" above ought to be copied to a COTA web site. You can't expect people to come to Matrix to read them.

[MarkShot]

Joe,

I don't get it. Why can't or won't people come to Matrix's site to read about COTA or HTTR? The community is wherever people chose to settle. For HTTR and COTA that is here.

Do you really believe that having

www.cota.com

and

www.cota.com/forums

is going to make the difference in sales?

---

I do agree that multi-media presentations would be more interesting and lively to follow. However, I still think they would require more work. I cannot imagine a movie made in the same stream of conciousness fashion I do these threads.

For me, this is already progress ... HTML and screenshots. I wrote 100 page guide to air combat which didn't have a single picture or diagram. It was all text. Not the easiest thing to read, but if you wanted to fly through the skies above the Channel as a fearless Kung Fu master, it was what you needed.

[sterckxe]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

Hmm, a movie ...

How about Yakstock versus Mr.Frag with you narrating and Dave acting as the referee?

And Ray could handle peanuts and popcorn sales.

The reactions you'd get :

Ray : Oh Dear !
Yakstock : <humming> another one bites the dust
Mr. Frag : I've already beaten him .... in the posts count !
Dave : The loser gets my bottle of shiraz
Me : Mum, I wanna play, I wanna play, I wanna play (ad nauseam)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx