Unit Depictions on Screen

World in Flames is the computer version of Australian Design Group classic board game. World In Flames is a highly detailed game covering the both Europe and Pacific Theaters of Operations during World War II. If you want grand strategy this game is for you.

Moderator: Shannon V. OKeets

Post Reply
Shannon V. OKeets
Posts: 22165
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

The Axis.

I fixed the elite SS wheels.

I added an outline for the elite SS and by a happy accident got the double outline effect (not sure what happened but I like it a lot).

Darkened the yellow on the non-elite SS, but just a smidge. We''ll see what Patrice thinks.

Still have to fix the long names (Imperial Guard) and I would like the black on red to be easier to read (running out of ideas for how to do that).

I'll lengthen the posts on the engineer's E, and see if adding a pixel to the anchor helps.

Everything else look pretty good.

Oops. The file is too large. I'll cut it into two.

Image
Attachments
Axis01012006a.jpg
Axis01012006a.jpg (103.51 KiB) Viewed 136 times
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
Shannon V. OKeets
Posts: 22165
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

Part two of the Axis.

Image
Attachments
Axis01012006b.jpg
Axis01012006b.jpg (147.59 KiB) Viewed 136 times
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
Glen Felzien
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Swan Hills, Alberta, CDN

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Glen Felzien »

[:D] Looking damn fine! I like how the Stilwell interior colour is the same as the American main colour; an appropriate match.
Glen
stretch
Posts: 637
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:00 am

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by stretch »

Awesome. Status bar looks good. Do you have any of the non-UK Commonwealth units ready like South African or Indian? I was wondering how they look.
Shannon V. OKeets
Posts: 22165
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: stretch

Awesome. Status bar looks good. Do you have any of the non-UK Commonwealth units ready like South African or Indian? I was wondering how they look.

I need to enter the abbreviations for all the non-major powers first.
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
Shannon V. OKeets
Posts: 22165
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

Here are a couple of screen shots to test how well the units look to players with different types of color blindness.

The Italians are the 8 units in the 2 columns x 4 rows of the upper right.

Image
Attachments
China Ital.. 01 2006.jpg
China Ital.. 01 2006.jpg (130.72 KiB) Viewed 136 times
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
Shannon V. OKeets
Posts: 22165
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

The Japanese are in the top two rows.

Image
Attachments
JapanUSA01012006.jpg
JapanUSA01012006.jpg (114.96 KiB) Viewed 136 times
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
User avatar
Caranorn
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Luxembourg
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Caranorn »

Just a note on the non-elite SS units. I (not colour blind) don't see much of a difference between the elite-white and non-elite-yellow text. Though I expect the unit symbols will be sufficient to differenciate the two types.

P.S.: I expect a more complex solution like the original red with a white or yellow outline is not an option.
Marc aka Caran... ministerialis
User avatar
Froonp
Posts: 7998
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:23 pm
Location: Marseilles, France
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Froonp »


Great great great great !!!!!

I love them all !!!!

The red of the Japanese is great (and the black is reading correctly, do not change it), the interior of the Japanese non white print is great, the green of the US is great too, their interior box is great too, the DIV interior are great too (I would have liked to see how light pink was showing for the Japanese though), the Chinese Yellow and box color are great, the commusist DIV box are great, the Italian are great, the outline of the white print text on light colored counter is great, the Germans are greatly grey (I would have liked the box around the AT & Field ART factor not to touch the box inside the counter), the SS are great (please, show us it with red writing, I'm sure it's ledgible [&o], the yellow does not stand out from the white print), the MAP & PARA boxes are great, the French units are Great, the British units are great, the Russians & their boxes are great, everything is great !!!!!!!

Glen Felzien
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Swan Hills, Alberta, CDN

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Glen Felzien »

I dont know Froonp. I think you are not being completely open here... [;)] You have got to stop holding back on how you feel! lol [;)][;)]

But you're right. They really do look great. It is interesting that the yellow print on black looks quite different than the white print to me anyway. But then, there are so many factors I suppose, hardware types, resolution, the ambiant lighting in the room that our computers are in and of course our individual eyesight. It has been through this colouring endevour that I have come to realize how difficult it is to come to an overall concensus.

Good job so far Steve.
Glen
User avatar
Froonp
Posts: 7998
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:23 pm
Location: Marseilles, France
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Froonp »

But you're right. They really do look great. It is interesting that the yellow print on black looks quite different than the white print to me anyway. But then, there are so many factors I suppose, hardware types, resolution, the ambiant lighting in the room that our computers are in and of course our individual eyesight. It has been through this colouring endevour that I have come to realize how difficult it is to come to an overall concensus.
OK, to be fair :
When I look the yellow on black on my flat 17" monitor at home, I cannot eadily tell the yellow from the white print. To tell you the truth, the first time I did not see that they were yellow, I thought they all were white.
When I look the yellow on black on my normal 19 or 21" monitor at work, I can see the yellow better, but it is still not "blatantly evident" that they are not white print.
Shannon V. OKeets
Posts: 22165
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: Froonp

, the Germans are greatly grey (I would have liked the box around the AT & Field ART factor not to touch the box inside the counter),

the SS are great (please, show us it with red writing, I'm sure it's ledgible [&o], the yellow does not stand out from the white print),

Thank you one and all. This not how the units looked when I first started doing them. It is by responding to suggestions and criticisms (but not all of them) that these little suckers have evolved into something pretty.

I want the artist's advice on how to render the artillery, AA and all the other little colored rectangles as ellipses, as was done on the paper countersheets. So that aspect of the units (land, air and naval) is still unfinished.

I'll take a crack at Marc' suggestion of using a red outlined with white for non-elite SS units. See what it looks like. I won't be able to do that for their unit names or size (XXX) lettering though because their font is too small.
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
User avatar
Froonp
Posts: 7998
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:23 pm
Location: Marseilles, France
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Froonp »

I'll take a crack at Marc' suggestion of using a red outlined with white for non-elite SS units.
Thanks. I'm sure it will be good looking.
See what it looks like. I won't be able to do that for their unit names or size (XXX) lettering though because their font is too small.
Who cares ? This is not important if you cannot instantly and all the time read perfectly those names. The most important are the factors on the counters.
pak19652002
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:40 am
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by pak19652002 »

These are looking good. Amazingly, the Chinese and Italian units look very different to me. The Japanese and US units are distinct as well. The US and Russian units are a little dicey, however. I didn't realize at first that both were on the Allied screenshot. Maybe you can sprinkle some of the same pixie dust on those as you did on the Italians and Chinese!

I agree that the yellow writing on the SS units needs to be spiced up a bit. CWIF was red, wasn't it? Anyway, in this case I think the contrast is key, not the color per se.

Peter
macgregor
Posts: 1050
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:44 pm

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by macgregor »

Looks good to me. The difference between American and Soviet units is clear to me. I know a lot of people have trouble with certain color distinction. I think they may be the only ones with the answer. Perhaps an optional color scheme for them?
SeaMonkey
Posts: 796
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:18 am

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by SeaMonkey »

For my 55 year old eyes I can definitely discern the yellow non-elite SS units from the white SS elite units, but I admit it is a bit difficult.

How about extending the yellow shading to the white portions of the Nato unit type depictions. This should delete any notion of white(eye-confusing) on the counters(non-elite) and bring the yellow of the numbers out to an increased prevalence.
pak19652002
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:40 am
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by pak19652002 »

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Looks good to me. The difference between American and Soviet units is clear to me. I know a lot of people have trouble with certain color distinction. I think they may be the only ones with the answer. Perhaps an optional color scheme for them?


Yes, I am Steve's official colorblind canary. I don't think the change needs to be drastic. Maybe just a little change in contrast would do it (i.e., make one a little lighter or the other a little darker). Maybe adding "more" orange (to the Russians?) or whatever could help also.

If any solutions look ridiculous or garish to the normal majority, then by all means we shouldn't use it. But, I'm hopeful in light of the success Steve had with the Italians and Chinese.

Peter


Shannon V. OKeets
Posts: 22165
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:51 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: pak19652002
These are looking good. Amazingly, the Chinese and Italian units look very different to me. The Japanese and US units are distinct as well. The US and Russian units are a little dicey, however. I didn't realize at first that both were on the Allied screenshot. Maybe you can sprinkle some of the same pixie dust on those as you did on the Italians and Chinese!

I agree that the yellow writing on the SS units needs to be spiced up a bit. CWIF was red, wasn't it? Anyway, in this case I think the contrast is key, not the color per se.
Peter

Excellent news. There might be others with blue-green instead of red-green, if I remember what I read about this back in 1982 when I did my first game. So I'll wait for addiitonal input.

What I was thinking about this morning was: adding a small square to the lower right corner of one or more countries so it is easy to tell them apart if colors don't do the job. For example, I could add a balck square to all the US land units. It is much harder to do something comparable for the air and naval units. There is very little room to work with. The best I have come up with is to place a circle around the strategic factor for air units (lower right corner, it is the only number that never has a circle on an air unit) and a circle around the anti-aircraft factor for naval units (lower left corner, it is the only number that never has a circle around it). The circles would be transparent, just a black rim. I would only do that for USA units and it could be toggled on and off. It would be simply a device for players having trouble with the colors who want that problem eliminated. What is messy about this is that each unit type (land, air, and sea) has a different indicator.

Perhaps a cleaner solution is for you (and maybe some others?) to devise a color combination that differentiaes all the major powers by color. In a sort of role reversal here, I am blind (unable to see) what would work for you and therefore can't do it myself. It doesn't matter if it looks garish or weird to anyone else, just so it works for you (as a representative of a minority). An optional color scheme could be automated (though I am not keen on doing that).

The way I worked out the colors in the screen shots posted herein was to place a simple square within a square and then make 40 copies or so. I filled 5 of them in for each major power: regular, divisional, artillery, marine, and airborne. After I had colors that looked reasonable, I used CorelDraw to tell me exactly what the RGB values were so I could incorporate them into the game. And then tweaked them over and over.

This doesn't have to be decided now. I actually prefer to let various possible solutions rise to the surface and drift around for a while. It seems as if eventually one of them will stand out as better than the rest.
Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.
pak19652002
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:40 am
Contact:

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by pak19652002 »

I don't think adding any boxes or circles to the counters is worth the trouble. As you say, they are busy enough as it is. I think the idea of changing colors is fantastic, however, and would leave it at that.

Thanks again for your concerted efforts on our behalf. It's interesting to note that between 8-12% of the male population has some degree of red-green colorblindness vs. 0.5% of women (does anyone know how many women play WiF?). That's a lot of people when you think about it...But, only 1 in 15-50,000 have blue-yellow color blindness so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over those unlucky people.[:(]

For your collective amusement, I'm attaching a little color blindness test I found. Some of you might even surprise yourselves!
_______________________

Numbers That You Should See If You Are In One Of The Following
Four Categories: [Some Letter Choices Show No Visible Numbers]


1. Normal Color Vision:
A: 29, B: 45, C: --, D: 26
2. Red-Green Color-Blind:
A: 70, B: --, C: 5, D: --
3. Red Color-blind:
A: 70, B: --, C: 5, D: 6
4. Green Color-Blind:
A: 70, B: --, C: 5, D: 2










Image
Attachments
colorbl3.jpg
colorbl3.jpg (55.3 KiB) Viewed 138 times
stretch
Posts: 637
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:00 am

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

Post by stretch »

Cool, I just checked and neither of my kids are color blind (and neither are mom and dad)
Post Reply

Return to “World in Flames”