The return of tristanjohn

[madmickey]

Welcome back and keep trying to keep the developers of WITP honest.

[Drex]

I certainly enjoy his contributions but wonder why he continues to play WitP. I guess he still believes the game has some merit.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Drex

I certainly enjoy his contributions but wonder why he continues to play WitP. I guess he still believes the game has some merit.

Maybe he thinks like I do that maybe the problems will get fixed and not be swept under the rug. After all, this is not an online used car lot. Playing, ooops....playtesting the game, reveals acceptable and unacceptable elements of the design.

[Drex]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: Drex

I certainly enjoy his contributions but wonder why he continues to play WitP. I guess he still believes the game has some merit.

Maybe he thinks like I do that maybe the problems will get fixed and not be swept under the rug. After all, this is not an online used car lot. Playing, ooops....playtesting the game, reveals acceptable and unacceptable elements of the design.

Well I hope both you and Tristan can create enough momentum to achieve this but at least the game is still playable, especially with the mods around.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Drex

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: Drex

I certainly enjoy his contributions but wonder why he continues to play WitP. I guess he still believes the game has some merit.

Maybe he thinks like I do that maybe the problems will get fixed and not be swept under the rug. After all, this is not an online used car lot. Playing, ooops....playtesting the game, reveals acceptable and unacceptable elements of the design.

Well I hope both you and Tristan can create enough momentum to achieve this but at least the game is still playable, especially with the mods around.

Well, I don't think either of us will achieve squat! I'm not exactly popular ya know and poor Tris and a few others get little respect because they are not goo gooing over the game either.[8D]

[Drex]

"Its a dirty thankless job but somebody's got to do it" anyway it does make the forum more interesting.

[dtravel]

But you will notice over time that more and more of us stop posting as we get frustrated and give up on both the game and the company. There are already a lot fewer than there were a few months ago.

[Drex]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

But you will notice over time that more and more of us stop posting as we get frustrated and give up on both the game and the company. There are already a lot fewer than there were a few months ago.

That's the way of every game. Another group will take over. As the game grows old we move to another game.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

But you will notice over time that more and more of us stop posting as we get frustrated and give up on both the game and the company. There are already a lot fewer than there were a few months ago.

And some of us have tried to be a lot fewer (in the tradition of the old Dylan song, "Later on, when the crowd thinned out, I was just about to do the same ..."), but linger in hope that something good will happen again here where the promise was, "Wargaming gets serious." After a few episodes of, "There's nothing wrong with the Harbinger Saga," we begin to realize that the "community" ain't real "communal" anymore.

The future of computer wargaming was here. It has moved on. If Matrix calls it back, great. I don't see it happening.

[ADavidB]

There's nothing wrong with wanting a better game. When one comes, we'll buy it and play it. In the meanwhile we'll play this one.

Dave Baranyi

[Rob Brennan UK]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

But you will notice over time that more and more of us stop posting as we get frustrated and give up on both the game and the company. There are already a lot fewer than there were a few months ago.

Actually . A LOT of the old crowd have retured over the past couple of months .. Ron, Pasternaski <sp> , Tris , DT too .. you all went away for a sabattical in hawaii imho [;)].. then returned full of vengance and brimstone [;)]

[madmickey]

I appreciate the effort of Pasternaski, Tristian and Ron. I myself have been avoiding this game for a while because of the bug and the ahistorical aspect of the game.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: madmickey

I appreciate the effort of Pasternaski, Tristian and Ron. I myself have been avoiding this game for a while because of the bug and the ahistorical aspect of the game.

I can't avoid it, that's part of the problem. It is not a complete farce. It has some great elements that keep one hoping that the not so great elements (and the complete horse hockey) will get a second deserved treatment.

[moses]

Welcome back and keep trying to keep the developers of WITP honest.

Yes the developers deliberatly spent the last few years making a piece of garbage. We cant let them get away with this. {sarcasm}

Well, I don't think either of us will achieve squat! I'm not exactly popular ya know and poor Tris and a few others get little respect because they are not goo gooing over the game either.

Many don't seem to realize that there does exist a middle ground between "goo gooing" and trashing the game at every opportunity. Anyone who does not trash the game is immediately labeled a fanboy of some sort and has his every post trashed along with the game.

I for one am quite aware of many flaws in WITP. I'm sure that if the design team could start over from scratch they would do many things differently. But this is the case for all games. Not a single game ever produced is completely historical. Not a single game is without serious flaws. At some point you either play the game as is or move on.

I can't avoid it, that's part of the problem. It is not a complete farce. It has some great elements that keep one hoping that the not so great elements (and the complete horse hockey) will get a second deserved treatment.

Here's the part I really hate. "The game is so close that if only you people would follow my instructions it would be really great." Yes you guys are so wise and knowlegeable and the rest of us are fanboys with zero knowledge of history or game development. Except of course the developers who have just been trying to get our money from the beginning. {sarcasm again} Plus no matter what was "fixed" there would always be the next thing that makes the game totally unplayable. The fiction that those who consistanly trash this game are somehow "carrying the torch for wargaming excellence" makes me ill.


Its time to fix the last few bugs and move on. Feel free to quote me multiple times and trash me quote by quote in a three page post. I'll be doing a turn.

[mdiehl]

Yes you guys are so wise and knowlegeable and the rest of us are fanboys with zero knowledge of history or game development.

Correct analysis e'en as it was meant to be sarcastic.

[Ron Saueracker]

Many don't seem to realize that there does exist a middle ground between "goo gooing" and trashing the game at every opportunity. Anyone who does not trash the game is immediately labeled a fanboy of some sort and has his every post trashed along with the game.

But don't forget that those who criticise it are labelled as trashers also. Works both ways.

The fiction that those who consistanly trash this game are somehow "carrying the torch for wargaming excellence" makes me ill.

Oh my. How quickly we forget. You are doing just that here.[8|] Guess you are not part of that middle ground.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

Yes you guys are so wise and knowlegeable and the rest of us are fanboys with zero knowledge of history or game development.

Correct analysis even as it was meant to be sarcastic.

[:D][&o]

[mogami]

Hi, No one objects to anyone posting about the game. It becomes SPAM when you post the same things over and over.

A bug report.
1. What the bug is
2. What you did to produce it
3. A file of the game before it occured.


A suggested design change
1. Where it impacts game
2. How the design could be changed.

There is no reason to post about the subject again except in response to questions.

The game is not currently in design change mode (exceptions might be made for items with drastic game impact)
The game is still in bug fix mode.

In both bug and design posts the posters need not dwell on how screwed up the designers or testers were while game was pre-release all that does is make people suspect the poster has another agenda. Where this need is felt required the poster should at least provide a link to examples of their work where they demonstrate how every program they produce works flawlessly and has no detractors.

[Mr.Frag]

Where this need is felt required the poster should at least provide a link to examples of their work where they demonstrate how every program they produce works flawlessly and has no detractors.

Too true ... the grass is always greener over yonder until someone walks the dog there ... then ...

Squish!

Same old crap!

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, No one objects to anyone posting about the game. It becomes SPAM when you post the same things over and over.

Excuse me, but don't you post the same things over and over?

Tell me. How much progress would have been made with regard to the goofy ASW routines if people had not beat that dead horse to death? If I recall, the original stance of Matrix was that it was "working as designed." Hell, isn't that your own response every time someone complains about a design feature? Don't you constantly revert to the same old "You're just a bad player so who'd listen to you?" argument?

There is no reason to post about the subject again except in response to questions.

It's human nature to want a response to a question. It's human nature to expect a response from a company you've bought something from when that product doesnt work right. Also, when the company initially stonewalls a complaint (for instance, problems with ASW were routinely denied by company representatives) it is also human nature (for some people at least) not to necessarily accept this response as the final word on the subject. Some people want and expect more than that. That's just the way it is out here, and has been since I was small.

The game is not currently in design change mode (exceptions might be made for items with drastic game impact)
The game is still in bug fix mode.

The bug-fix part is moving along slowly enough from what I can see. I'm glad Matrix hasn't completely abandoned the project, though.

As for changes to the game design itself which would have "drastic game impact," that list is, unhappily, a long one.

In both bug and design posts the posters need not dwell on how screwed up the designers or testers were while game was pre-release all that does is make people suspect the poster has another agenda.

Another agenda? Another agenda other than what? Please tell me what "our" agenda is supposed to be? To applaud Matrix at every turn no matter how unsatisfied we might be with the game we bought? Are we to sit here quietly on the boards engaging in nothing more than harmless prattle? Except, of course, unless one wishes to praise Matrix for releasing the best wargame ever . . . which doesn't happen to function well in many respects, at least according to some people . . . but we're not supposed to mention that little detail, are we?

Where this need is felt required the poster should at least provide a link to examples of their work where they demonstrate how every program they produce works flawlessly and has no detractors.

It's never been a question of the game not working "flawlessly." Matrix has been afforded loads of slack with respect to bugs per se, and the company is duly treated to warm rounds of thank-yous whenever it does fix something.

The reason one reads about other kinds of "complaints" is that the game was designed fundamentally wrong in many respects, according to some people, and for this reason the results in play tend to come out "odd" according to their lights, a situation which does not make for completely happy campers in all quarters. Irksome, is it not?

Oh, well, it seems that life just isn't always fair.