utter guerilla stupidity

[Russian Guard]

ORIGINAL: jimwinsor

Which I would argue was not really the case with Europe vs France 1814 or 1815...or even France vs Spain...that was more regime change...which non-TW handles nicely enough with the Remove Leader peace option, Enforced Alliance option, and such.

Hmmm...the rules speak to TW as being the declaration of another Government as null and void (paraphrased), which is exactly what the Allies did to Nappy in 1814 and 1815. He tried to negotiate a deal that would leave him in power, no deal. He had to go, and the Bourbons had to be restored.

Of course the more significant issue here is the impact TW has on game mechanics.

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Guys
okay, I think I now see what you have been reporting

background, close to end of game, all of Spain is still under Spainish control

I declare Total War on Spain and go to town

once I almost own all of Spain, they start to show up, in ones and twos, most as they are popping up right under a Army already there, just go to battle and are taken POW, others, slip out though the border

I ended up winning the game on points, but keep the game going to see how bad it could become

overall, I think it could get pretty bad !

I got a number of hunting parties running around Europe chasing them down before they can form groups large enough to take over provinces

work around seems to be not to go to Total war with Spain, until you can take them out, fast (total war, you need to control all of there provinces at once, and they just give up)

(my mistake, I didn't notice the Spainish Island)

save and report turned into Eric

[ericbabe]

Total war does increase the rate of guerilla production, quite dramatically.

We are considering a number of ways to limit the effect of guerillas: current ideas are to limit their total number and make them very weak outside of home-territory (and make the AI not bring them out of home territory.)

[Hard Sarge]

Hi Eric
I am talking about 150 Div's of POW's, maybe another 50-75 Div's running around free that were not grouped large enough to start battles

plus I think there is a hassle with the idea of, the AI sending them out of home, they were being fought out of home

I had the border of Spain closed off, there one province in Italy, I had surrounded, they show up, lose a battle and slide to the next province, then either avoid a battle or get into one and slide over to the next province, over and over

the ones that got away, I just kept a Lancer or Cav unit with them, to keep them honest


which to be fair, I did set that war up on purpose, to see if I could make it do the Guerilla thing, i would not of normally of fought the war that way

and for what it is worth, I did not/have not seen this with Russia, Prussia, Aus or Sweden, same game I went to total war with all of them

[Khornish]

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

Total war does increase the rate of guerilla production, quite dramatically.

We are considering a number of ways to limit the effect of guerillas: current ideas are to limit their total number and make them very weak outside of home-territory (and make the AI not bring them out of home territory.)

I'd be happy if the only change is in having the AI not bring them out of home territory. Guerilla's did well because they were fairly local, if not immediately local, to the region over which they operated. They had some, if not a lot, of support from the local populace which they were generally a part of. We all know this, but it appears the AI is ignorant of the dynamic involved.

I just don't see how Spanish guerillas would have been effective operating in Silesia or Grodno, but as it stands now, they are just as good as if they were in Spain.

[nachinus]

ORIGINAL: Khornish

I'd be happy if the only change is in having the AI not bring them out of home territory. Guerilla's did well because they were fairly local, if not immediately local, to the region over which they operated. They had some, if not a lot, of support from the local populace which they were generally a part of. We all know this, but it appears the AI is ignorant of the dynamic involved.

I just don't see how Spanish guerillas would have been effective operating in Silesia or Grodno, but as it stands now, they are just as good as if they were in Spain.

Very true. I totally agree. And I'd say that not only for the AI. IMHO, Guerrillas should be locked in national territory for all players. I'd say that they should only be able to exit national territory as a result of a retreat, and with severe penalties and losses. If that limitation is not possible code-wise, then the idea of making them very weak outside homeland is good, but then the AI should be taught not to use them that way.

[Khornish]

ORIGINAL: nachinus


Very true. I totally agree. And I'd say that not only for the AI. IMHO, Guerrillas should be locked in national territory for all players. I'd say that they should only be able to exit national territory as a result of a retreat, and with severe penalties and losses. If that limitation is not possible code-wise, then the idea of making them very weak outside homeland is good, but then the AI should be taught not to use them that way.

Well, my intention is that they are never allowed to leave their home provinces under any circumstances, even if forced to retreat. I'd rather them be disbursed/disbanded than allow them to exit their home territory.

To my understanding of the historical record, a band under so much pressure would disburse and try to reconstitute itself at a later date. So, if in this instance the band was removed, the mechanic of generating guerillas in the first place would likely recover the unit anyways.