PzB vs BWHeatley - Super dreadnoughts at war

[PzB74]

Think I've managed to scrounge 8 divisions for the invasion of Pearl Harbour now. Not sure how many I'm going
to need, afraid landings will be horrific. Only 4 pre-dreadnoughts and a few armoured cruisers will be left to guard
the operations in the Philippines. In all some 12 dreadnought, 4 pre-dreadnought, 6 battlecruisers and 2 carriers will
support Op Shingle. Before this can happened Midway has to be secured. Going directly for PH without having supply
bases to fall back on would be a folly.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/15/26

Sub Attacks

Subs in ports are more efficient than in WitP due to lack of asw weapons. Moved some
search planes into Sasebo this today. In the process of loading a couple of divisions for the operation
against PH!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Sasebo at 58,41

Japanese Ships
AP Kiyama Maru, Torpedo hits 1
DD No. 8

Allied Ships
SS S-41

Japanese ground losses:
34 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surface Combat

A few skirmish battles:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shanghai at 52,39

Japanese Ships
CL Kiso, on fire

Allied Ships
PG Monocacy
PG Palos
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Little success in the Philippines today! Firstly I learned something new: tank units
will shock attack when they enter an enemy hex [8|]

Ground combat at Clark Field

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 2024 troops, 0 guns, 76 vehicles

Defending force 11128 troops, 88 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 4)

Japanese ground losses: - not much left of the small armoured formation....
588 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Despite no forts our troops are repulsed in Manila and will have to wait for reinforcements
through Clark Field. There are ca the same number of troops heading there as in Manila right now.
Loading some additional artillery, infantry and engineer reinforcements in Japan right now.

Ground combat at Manila

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 55470 troops, 454 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 33091 troops, 161 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese ground losses:
1958 casualties reported
Guns lost 55

Allied ground losses:
51 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another 'blitz' attack by a tank unit!

Ground combat at San Marcelino

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 4874 troops, 34 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 194 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE San Marcelino base !!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[PzB74]

Bill is a bit lost about how to defend Pearl Harbour. He says all his ships have damage and are not
ready for battle [&:]

When I checked the Allied side I counted 23 US bbs and bcs! 4 of them had 10 sys damage while most
of them were due for upgrades. I don't see any reason why the Allied player should allow his ships to perform
these upgrades as it will put them out of action for quite some time - and for what...a new catapult!? [:'(]

If Bill has upgraded all his capital ships he may have a problem - of his own making I think!

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/16/26

Sub/ASW Attacks

A ship carrying parts of a mortar battalion is torpedoed and heavily damaged.
Will attempt to beach her at Bataan island tomorrow and unload the troops before
she sinks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 46,45

Japanese Ships
AK Calcutta Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nara

Allied Ships
SS S-31

Japanese ground losses:
51 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Midway at 95,61

Japanese Ships
SS No. 45, hits 1, on fire

Allied Ships
MSW Lapwing
MSW Tern
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surface Combat

Somehow my cl's continue to return to Shanghai to pick up troops even though I've ordered them back
to Japan? Seems like I have to change their mission from FT to cancell that bloody order! *curses* [:(]

The poor Kiso - now without any ammo engages a dozen Chinese gunboats...and gets away with it.
The captain has been shot and the crew ordered to take the ship back home.

That little 'escapade' at Shanhai turned out to be a nuisance!

Night Time Surface Combat, near Shanghai at 52,39

Japanese Ships
CL Kiso, Shell hits 38, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Ying Jui
CL Chao Ho
CL Hai Yung, Shell hits 1
CL Hai Chou
CL Hai Chen
DD Chien Kang
DD Tung An
DD Yu Chang
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[PzB74]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/17/26

Sub/ASW Attacks

Numerous sub contacts and attacks today!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 46,55

Japanese Ships (east of Luzon)
AP Hakuyo Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Nichiran Maru
DD Kiri
DD Kuri

Allied Ships
SS S-38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 97,61 (east of Midway)

Japanese Ships
SS UB-125 (O6)

Allied Ships
CL Milwaukee
DD Taylor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 96,61 (east of Midway)

Japanese Ships
SS No. 62

Allied Ships
MSW Tern, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
MSW Tanager
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surface Combat

Sent two scout cruisers to Midway and they 'bagged' two minesweepers!

Day Time Surface Combat, near Midway at 95,61

Japanese Ships
CL Naka, Shell hits 2
CL Jintsu

Allied Ships
MSW Lapwing, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
MSW Turkey, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Midway at 95,61

Japanese Ships
CL Naka
CL Jintsu

Allied Ships
MSW Turkey, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

The main force heading towards Clark is moving slowly and an SNLF unit
from the south moved in prematurely and was repulsed! Don't know why rested
units move so slow on good roads - 25 miles after 3-4 days!?

Ground combat at Clark Field

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 10404 troops, 87 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 1285 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 47 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
383 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Allied ground losses:
17 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Midway

Several enemy capital ship task forces were reported by subs east of Midway today. Does
Bill want to contest my planned invasion of the island? I'm going to use the opportunity to send
my battlefleet to Midway and attempt to destroy these ships!

Bill knows about my plan to invade Pearl Harbour since I posted the last report on the WitP forum
by mistake [8|] Need to make a few 'twists'....

[PzB74]

From what Bill told me it seems like he accepted upgrades to many of his capital ships when this
game started and this means they have sys damage in their 30s.... Not sure I'm going to upgrade any
of my ships with such a big penaltiy. Will take forever to fix them with very little gain.

[PzB74]

Been a while since I updated this AAR...WitP takes most of my time!
So you're probably getting more accurate updates from Bill's thread.

Here is a short update:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/18/26

Ground combat at Clark Field

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 124577 troops, 435 guns, 25 vehicles

Defending force 40303 troops, 206 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Clark Field base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
3673 casualties reported
Guns lost 52
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses: [8D]
52812 casualties reported
Guns lost 164
-----------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Bataan

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4334 troops, 45 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 1050 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
73 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
57 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
-----------------------------------------------------------

Situation Map: the Philippines!

I landed a Cavalry Division at Bataan with 100 preparation points. It still
got mauled and 80% of the transports were sunk! 2 old dreadnought provided close cover.
Andy only had a base force at Bataan and my plan was to block the retreat route from Clark!

It succeeded but fast transports from Shanghai brought in parts of a US Inf regiment in an attempt
to dislodge my men.

The Army at Clark has suffered heavy losses in the fighting over the last few weeks. All units that moved
piecemeal into Clark from Lingayen and Manila conducted shock attacks. This must be a bug? Cost me dearly.
Well, only mopping up to do now.

Otherwise no major capital ships have been sunk - a pre-dreadnought was hit by a torp but damage was light, 14 sys
and 40 flood that was rapidly fixed.

I've captured Wake, Midway and Johnston islands and is currently in the process of securing Baker and Palmyra as well.
My plan is to keep the US Pacific Fleet bottled up in Pearl. So I'll build the bases and place strong coastal defence
units supported by a full inf division and bombers.

Bill sortied the carrier Langley together with a surface force and ambushed my replenishment group 2 hexes west of Johnston
island. 5 destroyers were sunk - imagine a destroyer being torpedoed by a battleship <G>. Anyway, all my irreplacable fleet oilers
got away, so the escort didn't sacrifice themselves in vain. When the US ships retreated they ran into an invasion group heading
for Palmyra and sank a minesweeper with 3 torpedoes and damaged a transport. I'm still looking for this group with my own carriers.

Pearl Harbour will not be invaded: land combat in the Philippines showed me that it's way to difficult! My divisions ain't skilled enough
and they will suffer extreme casualties during an amph landing. The plan is to raid the Pacific Fleet and try to disable it.
There are lots of subs around PH and the plan is to be patient: build bases, bring in fuel and supplies and strike when the opportunity
provides itself.

Only if this mission is succesful will we turn on China and perhaps the British.

[PzB74]

Seems like both me and Bill wanted a decisive battle! Our fleets clashed just south of PH!
The results were dissappointing to say the least:

I'm simply pasting in the massive battle reports:

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/24/26

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 109,70

Japanese Ships
DD Nadakaze

Allied Ships
SS R-4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 109,70

Japanese Ships
DD Momi
DD Maki
DD Keyaki
DD No. 16
DD Shimakaze

Allied Ships
SS R-4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 101,73

Japanese Ships
AP Haruna Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS R-7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Lokai at 112,69

Japanese Ships
SS No. 69

Allied Ships
DD Evans
MSW Tanager
DD Decatur
DD Corry
DD Morris
DD Long
DD Howard
DD Renshaw
DD Mackenzie
DD Crosby
DD Thatcher
DD Greer
DD Tarbell
DD Ward
DD Kennison
DD Kilty
DD Boggs
DD Buchanan
DD Jacob Jones
DD Babbitt
DD Dent
DD Rathburne
DD Crane
DD Philip
DD Wickes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Shell hits 2
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB Fuso, Shell hits 3
CL Chitose, Shell hits 1
CL Tone, Shell hits 1
CL Sendai
DD Nire, Shell hits 1
DD Nashi
DD Ashi, Shell hits 2
DD Hishi, Shell hits 2
DD Sumire, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 2
BB Colorado, Shell hits 3
BB Washington, Shell hits 1
DD Williams
DD Talbot
DD Ramsay
DD Barry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Shell hits 2, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
BB Fuso
CL Chitose, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CL Tone
CL Sendai
DD Nire
DD Nashi
DD Ashi, Shell hits 1
DD Hishi, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Sumire, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota, Shell hits 3
BB North Carolina
BB Colorado, Shell hits 3
BB Washington, Shell hits 6
DD Williams, Shell hits 1
DD Talbot
DD Ramsay, Shell hits 1
DD Barry, Shell hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 1
BB Settsu, Shell hits 1
CA Iwate
CA Asama
CL Tsushima, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Shimakaze
DD No. 16
DD Keyaki, Shell hits 1
DD Maki
DD Momi

Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 1
BB Tennessee, Shell hits 5
BB New Mexico
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 3
DD Hazelwood
DD Lea
DD Lamberton, Shell hits 1
DD Radford, Shell hits 5, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 2
BB Settsu, Shell hits 1
CA Iwate, Shell hits 3
CA Asama, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Tsushima, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Shimakaze
DD No. 16
DD Keyaki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Maki, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Momi

Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 3
BB Tennessee, Shell hits 3
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 1
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 1
DD Hazelwood
DD Lea, Shell hits 2
DD Lamberton
DD Radford, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Tosa, Shell hits 1
BB Kaga
BC Hiei
BC Haruna, Shell hits 1
CL Oi
CL Natori, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD No.7
DD No.9, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD No.11

Allied Ships
BC Lexington, Shell hits 7, on fire
BC Saratoga, Shell hits 1
DD Trever, Shell hits 2
DD Wasmuth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Tosa
BB Kaga, Shell hits 3
BC Hiei, Shell hits 2
BC Haruna
CL Oi
CL Natori, on fire
DD No.7
DD No.9, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD No.11, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB California
BB Tennessee, Shell hits 2
BB New Mexico
BB Mississippi
DD Hazelwood
DD Lea
DD Lamberton
DD Radford, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Tosa, Shell hits 7
BB Kaga
BC Hiei, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BC Haruna
CL Oi
CL Natori, on fire, heavy damage
DD No.7, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD No.9, and is sunk
DD No.11, and is sunk

Allied Ships
BC Lexington, on fire
BC Saratoga, Shell hits 6
DD Trever
DD Wasmuth, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 12, on fire
BC Kongo, Shell hits 1, on fire
BC Kirishima
CL Kitakami
CL Kinu, Shell hits 1
DD No.15
DD No.17
DD No. 10

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota
BB North Carolina
BB Colorado
BB Washington
DD Williams, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Talbot
DD Ramsay
DD Barry, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 8, on fire
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kongo, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kirishima, Shell hits 2
CL Kitakami
CL Kinu, Shell hits 1
DD No.15, Shell hits 2
DD No.17
DD No. 10

Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 1
BB Tennessee
BB New Mexico
BB Mississippi
DD Hazelwood
DD Lea, Shell hits 1
DD Lamberton
DD Radford, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kongo, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kirishima
CL Kitakami
CL Kinu, Shell hits 1
DD No.15
DD No.17, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD No. 10

Allied Ships
BC Lexington, Shell hits 2, on fire
BC Saratoga
DD Trever
DD Wasmuth, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Heinkel HD25: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kongo, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
BC Kirishima, Shell hits 18, on fire, heavy damage
CL Kitakami
CL Kinu, Shell hits 7
DD No.15, Shell hits 2
DD No.17, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD No. 10, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB North Carolina
BB Colorado
BB Washington, Shell hits 1
DD Williams, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Talbot, Shell hits 5
DD Ramsay
DD Barry, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Cebu Island, 42,58, firing at TF 70
TF 70 troops unloading over beach at Cebu Island, 42,58

60 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AP Saiho Maru
AP Daitei Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Hagi, Shell hits 5
AP Ujigawa Maru, Shell hits 1
AP Tama Maru

Japanese ground losses:
766 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Coastal Guns at Cebu Island, 42,58, firing at TF 70
TF 70 troops unloading over beach at Cebu Island, 42,58

55 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AP Saiho Maru
DD Hagi, Shell hits 2
DD Sugi
DD No. 2, Shell hits 1
AP Shuko Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
629 casualties reported
Guns lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 109,69

Japanese Ships
AO Ondo, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nadakaze

Allied Ships
SS S-26
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 109,69

Japanese aircraft
Mitsubishi 1MF3 x 14

Allied aircraft
de Havilland DH-4 x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
de Havilland DH-4: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
AO Ondo, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 109,69

Japanese aircraft
Mitsubishi 1MF3 x 14

Allied aircraft
de Havilland DH-4 x 17

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
de Havilland DH-4: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kii
BB Owari
BC Amagi, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 109,69

Japanese aircraft
Mitsubishi 1MF3 x 14

Allied aircraft
de Havilland DH-4 x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
de Havilland DH-4: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Owari

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 109,69

Japanese aircraft
Mitsubishi 1MF3 x 14

Allied aircraft
de Havilland DH-4 x 16

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Kitakami

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
4 x de Havilland DH-4 bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 109,70

Japanese aircraft
Mitsubishi 1MF3 x 12
Mitsubishi B1M1 x 12
Mitsubishi B1M2 x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
Mitsubishi B1M1: 2 damaged
Mitsubishi B1M2: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Roper
DD Laub
DD McDermut
DD Upshur
DD Breese, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Montgomery

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Mitsubishi B1M1 launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x Mitsubishi B1M2 launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x Mitsubishi B1M1 launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x Mitsubishi B1M1 launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x Mitsubishi B1M2 launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x Mitsubishi B1M2 launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Lokai at 112,69

Japanese Ships
SS No. 69, hits 2

Allied Ships
MSW Tanager
DD Decatur
DD Corry
DD Morris
DD Long
DD Howard
DD Renshaw
DD Mackenzie
DD Crosby
DD Thatcher
DD Greer
DD Tarbell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
SS UC-99 (O5)

Allied Ships
MSW Pelican
MSW Kingfisher
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the mail I sent to Bill:

You're right...I was sailing towards PH to engage you in a decisive battle.
I had no intentions about invading PH - defeating the Pacific Fleet would be hard enough.

Seems like you were keen on engaging my fleet as well cause we clashed big time today : )
Our fleets were very evenly matched, both in numbers and force composition.
Great I thought, perfect - nothing better than a series of exciting and decisive battles!

Unfortunately the night battles were extremely one sided and unbalanced. I lost score of ships including
5 of my best battleships/cruisers!! I merely managed to damage a couple of your bb's. I didn't even
care to watch the battles as my ships didn't hit anything...( If the game got an Allied bias in surface
battles and Japan can't beat an evenly matched US fleet now they never will...

This is a bit unfortunate since it means the end of Jap expansion: I will sail back and fortify every
single island between the PI and PH. So no invasion of China or war with Britain. I'm a bit afraid
that there may be many quiet turns to come.

I will of course continue but I'm a bit dissappointed in how the game simulated todays battles - and
that will most likely not increase my enthusiasm for WPO : - \

[Helpless]

Bad news , PzB...

Not pretending to be an expert here, but your TF composition was a bit different from the suggested "uniform magic 8" in tutorial and your opponent was much closer in that... [&:]

..of cause you set only the best leaders... blah-blah-blah...

So far in my PBEM game as IJN a had successes only against much weaker fleets...

[PzB74]

Lots of possibilities but I don't like the conclusions I've drawn...

I had 4-5 fleets engage the enemy and even achieved surprise without managing to land any hits?
Even against 2 enemy battlecruisers and 2 destroyers 4 of my best capital ships failed to score hits.
Is it a disadvantage to have 4 capital ships with 8 escort vessels fight 2 enemy bc's escorted by 2 destroyers?
Should be a big advantage if you ask me [&:]

Not being able to score hits at night and being pummeled in return means that the enemy must be better at night fighting than our guys.
As far as I understand the opposing forces are supposed to be evenly matched in night fighting capabilities in WPO?

[Helpless]

ORIGINAL: PzB

Even against 2 enemy battlecruisers and 2 destroyers 4 of my best capital ships failed to score hits.

Indeed, quite a bad luck. In its second engagement Lexington supposed to be very good target on fire.

As I see your worst result was against Allies SD force. While your SD force was 60 miles away... a lot of options... [8|]

[Tankerace]

First off, a couple of observations that might help -

1. Night fighting. At start, both sides are equally low in night fighting, however, as ships are at sea they gain experience. So, while they start out equally, each side can train to a different degree.

2. Magic "8" combiniation. Again, best results are usually obtained with no more than 4 capital ships.

3. Force size. At night, smaller forces should always have the advantage, and rightly so. At Jutland, the large forces became strung out, lost, and completely separated. Using your examples, 2 BCs and 2 DDs would be much more likely to be in the same vicinity and not strung out than 2 BB, 2 BC, 3 CL, and 3 DD.

4. Ship groupings. He made distinct fleets, with TFs of BBs and separate TFs of BCs. You split your Kongo's up with two with the Kagas and 2 with the Nagatos. I've also noted that he grouped his ships in (to me) a more logical manner, with 14" dreadnoughts with other 14" ships, adn all 16" gun ships together. However, you grouped yours with 16" BBs and 14" BCs, 14" BBs with 12" BBs, all playing mary Hell with fire distribution, and speed and maneuverability.

5. Ammo loadout. I'll bet your BBs were out of ammo when they engaged the Lexingtons, as you should have scored some hits with surprise. And as far down in the combat list as that is, that is a definate possibility.

6. Actual combat,

Analysising each combat:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Shell hits 2
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB Fuso, Shell hits 3
CL Chitose, Shell hits 1
CL Tone, Shell hits 1
CL Sendai
DD Nire, Shell hits 1
DD Nashi
DD Ashi, Shell hits 2
DD Hishi, Shell hits 2
DD Sumire, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 2
BB Colorado, Shell hits 3
BB Washington, Shell hits 1
DD Williams
DD Talbot
DD Ramsay
DD Barry

Here we have a clear besting. Three 14" Gunned dreadnoughts vs four 16" gunned dreadnoughts. Nothing suspicious here to me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Ise, Shell hits 2, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
BB Fuso
CL Chitose, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CL Tone
CL Sendai
DD Nire
DD Nashi
DD Ashi, Shell hits 1
DD Hishi, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Sumire, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota, Shell hits 3
BB North Carolina
BB Colorado, Shell hits 3
BB Washington, Shell hits 6
DD Williams, Shell hits 1
DD Talbot
DD Ramsay, Shell hits 1
DD Barry, Shell hits 1, on fire

Same TFs reengaging, able to zero in on the burning Hyuga. Nothing really suspicious here again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 1
BB Settsu, Shell hits 1
CA Iwate
CA Asama
CL Tsushima, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Shimakaze
DD No. 16
DD Keyaki, Shell hits 1
DD Maki
DD Momi

Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 1
BB Tennessee, Shell hits 5
BB New Mexico
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 3
DD Hazelwood
DD Lea
DD Lamberton, Shell hits 1
DD Radford, Shell hits 5, on fire

Again a clear besting. One 14" gunned BB and one 12" gunned BB vs four 14" gunned BBs. Again, nothing suspicious here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Shell hits 2
BB Settsu, Shell hits 1
CA Iwate, Shell hits 3
CA Asama, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Tsushima, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Shimakaze
DD No. 16
DD Keyaki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Maki, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Momi

Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 3
BB Tennessee, Shell hits 3
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 1
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 1
DD Hazelwood
DD Lea, Shell hits 2
DD Lamberton
DD Radford, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Same ships reengaging, but with burning ships to zero in on. Nothing really surprising.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Tosa, Shell hits 1
BB Kaga
BC Hiei
BC Haruna, Shell hits 1
CL Oi
CL Natori, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD No.7
DD No.9, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD No.11

Allied Ships
BC Lexington, Shell hits 7, on fire
BC Saratoga, Shell hits 1
DD Trever, Shell hits 2
DD Wasmuth

Here the Japanese gain an edge, scoring more hits than the Americans. Two 16" BBs and two 14" BCs engaging two 16" BCs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Tosa
BB Kaga, Shell hits 3
BC Hiei, Shell hits 2
BC Haruna
CL Oi
CL Natori, on fire
DD No.7
DD No.9, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD No.11, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB California
BB Tennessee, Shell hits 2
BB New Mexico
BB Mississippi
DD Hazelwood
DD Lea
DD Lamberton
DD Radford, on fire, heavy damage

Here the action would have gone to the Americans, but it seems they were low on Ammo. The Japanese actually had a slight advantage in guns, but it seems the US was low on ammo, sinking only the destroyers. I would have expected more hits, but how uch ammo did the Japanese have left? No red flags here....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Tosa, Shell hits 7
BB Kaga
BC Hiei, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BC Haruna
CL Oi
CL Natori, on fire, heavy damage
DD No.7, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD No.9, and is sunk
DD No.11, and is sunk

Allied Ships
BC Lexington, on fire
BC Saratoga, Shell hits 6
DD Trever
DD Wasmuth, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage

Again the Japanese have the superiority here, scoring 16 hits in exchange for 10 hits and a lucky torpedo hit. I would imagine both the Japanese BC and the US Saratoga are both hurt bad, needing dock time. Again, no red flags here, as the US with fewer and faster ships should be able to dictate the withdrawl.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 12, on fire
BC Kongo, Shell hits 1, on fire
BC Kirishima
CL Kitakami
CL Kinu, Shell hits 1
DD No.15
DD No.17
DD No. 10

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota
BB North Carolina
BB Colorado
BB Washington
DD Williams, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Talbot
DD Ramsay
DD Barry, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 8, on fire
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kongo, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kirishima, Shell hits 2
CL Kitakami
CL Kinu, Shell hits 1
DD No.15, Shell hits 2
DD No.17
DD No. 10

Allied Ships
BB California, Shell hits 1
BB Tennessee
BB New Mexico
BB Mississippi
DD Hazelwood
DD Lea, Shell hits 1
DD Lamberton
DD Radford, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

These two battles... I dunno. What were your leader ratings? The US had the advantage in firepower in the first round, followed by the advantage shifting (slightly) to the Japanese in the second. Still, 2 BBs and 2 BCs against 8 US BBs... that is still a US advantage. What were the leader values? The other battles were plain besting of you, either by better leaders, composition, or both. But this one could have just been a "fortune of war".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kongo, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kirishima
CL Kitakami
CL Kinu, Shell hits 1
DD No.15
DD No.17, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD No. 10

Allied Ships
BC Lexington, Shell hits 2, on fire
BC Saratoga
DD Trever
DD Wasmuth, Shell hits 8, and is sunk

This one isn't hard to figure out, blazing from the last two battles, Nagato and Mutsu were easy targets for the faster battlecruisers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 109,70

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Heinkel HD25: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
BC Kongo, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
BC Kirishima, Shell hits 18, on fire, heavy damage
CL Kitakami
CL Kinu, Shell hits 7
DD No.15, Shell hits 2
DD No.17, Shell hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD No. 10, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB South Dakota, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB North Carolina
BB Colorado
BB Washington, Shell hits 1
DD Williams, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Talbot, Shell hits 5
DD Ramsay
DD Barry, on fire

Here again the fleets reengage, with a definate advantage to the US. 2 crippled BBs and a crippled BC vs 4 16" gunned BBs... the results aren't that hard to fathom. I would have expected somewhat better from the Japanese fleet, but again, what was the leader values?




After reading through each battle, it is not my conlusion that it is the game, but that BWheatley beat you hands down. His fleet composition and grouping was better. He grouped his battleships and battlecruisers based on speed, gunsize, and class. He left CLs out of the battle line, leaving a clear definition between ships engaging with guns and ships that will use torpedoes.

Most important was the grouping of battleships. By grouping 4 16" gunners together, he can bring broadsides as soon as possible. By you having 2 14" and 2 16", you must close the range, and your 16" gunned must fire with only forward turrets, this cuts your firepower down immensly, letting him score critical hits faster. Also by splitting your ships up, if he engages with 4 14" ships, his boys can run in faster, fully aware of the fact they won't be facing four full battleships. And by using your BCs in the battle line (which are more vulnearable, and their whole reason for being is lost if they can't have room to maneuver), that means you have only 16 14" guns per TF, plus the 16 or 20 16" guns. In his task forces, he had 48 14" guns, giving him 12 to 16 more barrels, even if he doesn't have the range. That right there, in effect puts you at a 3:4 odds with him.

In addition, against the 16" BBs, he has 40 barrels (24 between the 2 SoDaks, 16 between the two Colorados), that means he still has a 4 to 8 barrel superiority over you, and this time he does control the range. So, it is my observation that in each set battle, he had:

1. Better composition
2. More gun power
3. More mobile fleets
4. Separate TFs for the faster Battlecruisers
5. Better leaders

That is just what I observed. And frankly, I think that is really how it should work, if both sides are more or less equal.

[PzB74]

Thx for the update Tankrace, guess I got lots to learn about WPO yet! [;)]

I've not had time to read through all the AARs and discover the 'magic 8 ship' composition advantage.
Same with including ca's and cl's in a battleships TF - makes sense!

My reasoning was that putting 2 14" ships together with 2 16" ships would make them less vulnerable to a TF of
4 enemy capital ships armed with 16" guns.

I did not put more than 2-4 capital ships in any of my tf's either - all TFs had 9-12 ships in them.
The results were still a bit too one sided I think, should have been able to finish 1 or 2 enemy capital ships,
especially since we surprised the enemy several times. No reason my ships shouldn't land hits when they achieve
an advantage?

I also notice that all Jap and US TF's engaged each other 3-4 times. My ships all returned to Johnston Island
with plenty ammo left but it was the Nagato group which was engaged 4 times that took critical damage. Lost 4 out of
5 capital ships in that TF!

My best TF with the brand new super dreadnoughts was 1 hex to the north with the carrier division. Seems like they failed
to follow each other - and that may have been decisive. Bill told me he had to put 5 of his battlehsips into dock. I got the
Hiei heading for home with 41 sys damage and some fires.

As to leaders: V.Adm Yamamoto and Kono were among them together with Tanaka - got to check the others out, can't remember them all.

Again, thx for the update - I'll be back [8D]

[Helpless]

5. Better leaders

Tanker, what do you mean by saying "better leaders"? Is that bwheatley's approach to set less aggressive leaders for night fights?

[Tankerace]

Not sure of that... I am guessing that, because when testing WPO pre release I found that leasders made all the diffrence, and even a few points could hinge the battle. The last few battles I felt were one sided (namely the last 3), so that is my logical conclusion. If that isn't the case, then I'll try and find the problem, if there is one.

[Helpless]

Yes leaders really make the big difference here. Basically there is 4 values to play with - Leadership, Inspiration, Naval Skill, Aggression.

Bill's thoughts regarding the low aggression might have a point. The problem is that among Japanese leaders there is not that much with low aggresion and high naval ratings. Btw, what aggression should be assumed as low in WPO. There is hardly to find lower than 50 in IJN...

Should be a good topic for the next tutorial [:)]

[PzB74]

I checked an previous turn and found the leaders:

The TF with bb's Kii and Owari, bc's Omagi and Akagi, 2 cl's and 3 dd's didn't join the battle and was commanded by Tanaka 75/91.

The bb Yamashiro group under V.Adm Komatsu 67/84
The BB Tosa group under V.Adm Yamamoto 71/71
The BB Nagato group (which all sank) unde R.Adm Kono 69/70
The BB Ise group which performed amazingly well under V.Adm Ukita 71/61

[Helpless]

Assume all of them are high on naval and aggression. Would be interesting to see replay with low aggression leaders.
...
...
...
...
... and better TF composition [:'(] [;)] [:)]

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: PzB

I checked an previous turn and found the leaders:

The TF with bb's Kii and Owari, bc's Omagi and Akagi, 2 cl's and 3 dd's didn't join the battle and was commanded by Tanaka 75/91.

The bb Yamashiro group under V.Adm Komatsu 67/84
The BB Tosa group under V.Adm Yamamoto 71/71
The BB Nagato group (which all sank) unde R.Adm Kono 69/70
The BB Ise group which performed amazingly well under V.Adm Ukita 71/61

But what were their aggression ratings? Find this out by clicking on the leader as if to replace him, then in the elader screen, look where it has administration, air skill, sea skill, etc.

[PzB74]

Have to wait until tomorrow, TF's were at sea and I can't replace or examine them there
Yamamoto and Tanaka both got high naval skill and aggression ratings - pretty sure non of the leaders had low aggression nor naval skill
ratings though. All but impossible to find a Jap commander with high naval skill and low aggression!

[PzB74]

Checked the ratings when I did my WitP turn:

Naval skill and aggression ratings

Yamamoto 76/62
Ukita 71/61
Komatsu 70/72
Kono 63/64

Tanaka 87/91 (didn't engage)

Kono is the junior officer when it comes to naval skill - but they're all pretty aggressive.

[PzB74]

Discussing the continuation of our game with Bill. Either I play it slow and careful until the US are ready
to expand - this may take a year or more. Or we gung ho and learn all we can about game mechanics. I only got
10 modern dreadnoughts operational and his fleet will soon outnumber me big time.

Here is part of the mail I sent him:

Had a discussion with Tankrace regarding the results. I take some of his points and question a couple of the others.
Already re-organized my ships into 8 ship tf's - since all my tf's had between 9 and 11 ships I don't consider this to be crucial.

Not sure I understand why it's necessary to have 14" ships in their own tf's either - gun directors can't tell the difference between the splashes anyway and I think it would be an advantage to have 16" and 14" ships in combined tf's to protect the less heavily gunned ships.

At night speed would not be too important either - can't steam at full speed and expect to hit anything. A speed of 15-20 knots would be ideal? The exception could be battlecruisers - fast scout capital ships that can engage and disengage at will.

A more controversial issue is the leader question: I picked the best commanders available and they were all aggressive. Can't find a Jap navy commander with 60+ naval skill and a low aggression rating (below 50-55).

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/26/26

Sub/ASW Attacks

A few close calls four both sides capital ships!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
SS UC-99 (O5)

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi
DD Lamberton
DD Lea
DD Hazelwood
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Johnston Island at 102,74

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro
DD Momi
DD No. 16
DD Shimakaze

Allied Ships
SS S-7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 41,45 - between Hong Kong and the PI! US or French ship?

Japanese Ships
SS No. 41

Allied Ships
CL New Orleans, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Johnston Island at 102,74

Japanese Ships
BB Kii
DD No.5
DD No. 28
DD No. 23
BC Amagi

Allied Ships
SS S-7
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Pearl Harbor at 112,68

Japanese Ships
SS UC-99 (O5)

Allied Ships
DD Lamberton
DD Lea
DD Hazelwood
BB New Mexico
BB Mississippi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Situation Map: Johnston Island

I'm keeping my remaining capital ships at Johnston Island for a few turns. Need to refuel them!
Reorganized my fleet: 3 bc + 3 dd, 3 bb + 3 dd, 2 bb + 3 dd, 2 bb + 3 dd. Much the same leaders..except Kono [;)]
Impossible to find a decent naval commander with low aggression rating. The best I could do was 65 naval skill and 52 aggression.