Can we please have an in-game editor?

[mutterfudder]

I know this is beatinin a dead horse,dog or what ever but, can we have a ingame editor?

If I had not dropped out of school in the third grade I probably would know how to make it myself.

Release the code so it can be made...please?

[Arkady]

What do you mean by "in-game game" editor...?

For scenarios/databases there is an one...for save-game editor...well you know, anti-cheating security etc. = no editor should be public [8D]

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Arkady

What do you mean by "in-game game" editor...?

For scenarios/databases there is an one...for save-game editor...well you know, anti-cheating security etc. = no editor should be public [8D]

I would assume an "in-game" editor would be one that could edit data in games already underway.

I am personally all for it too...Dereck, any comments?

[Feinder]

Not likely to happen.

But yes, it would be nice. I'd like to think that most of us here are mature enough to not "use such powers for evil" and cheat in PBEM (since that's the very reason there isn't one). But I can see a game edittor "saving" several games where a bug (like disappearing units) has caused things to go very wrong.

I can see where it would be nice. But I don't see it happening.
-F-

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: Arkady

What do you mean by "in-game game" editor...?

For scenarios/databases there is an one...for save-game editor...well you know, anti-cheating security etc. = no editor should be public [8D]

I would assume an "in-game" editor would be one that could edit data in games already underway.

I am personally all for it too...Dereck, any comments?

It would be very simple to put code in the editor to not allow editing of PBEM games so that only AI games could be edited but the PBEMers are a very loud and vocal minority and do most of the posts on the forums while solo players don't really post that much so we basically always get the short end of the straw.

Would be nice, but like Feinder says you'd probably have a better chance keeping a snowball intact in hell than getting an editor like that.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: dereck

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: Arkady

What do you mean by "in-game game" editor...?

For scenarios/databases there is an one...for save-game editor...well you know, anti-cheating security etc. = no editor should be public [8D]

I would assume an "in-game" editor would be one that could edit data in games already underway.

I am personally all for it too...Dereck, any comments?

It would be very simple to put code in the editor to not allow editing of PBEM games so that only AI games could be edited but the PBEMers are a very loud and vocal minority and do most of the posts on the forums while solo players don't really post that much so we basically always get the short end of the straw.

Would be nice, but like Feinder says you'd probably have a better chance keeping a snowball intact in hell than getting an editor like that.

I Agree with both you and Feinder - don't hold your breath.

But on the purely technical side - why would ANYONE be afraid of cheating on PBEM????

It's not like you could edit the scenario and send it to your opponent without him knowing ....my goodness! I know, because the PBEM I'm in is one I edited and sent put before my opponent and I (we) started playing.

They have to be identical or the game won't work - so - So Much For Cheating!

[Feinder]

I guess familarity with the DB and scenario design, might give me a little insight into how you could cheat with the editor.

But yes, there are plenty of ways to screw-ball a game without actually deleting/moving units.

The other thing to mention is, you can see both friendly/enemy units in the DB. Knowing the location of enemy units (recorded in the DB), can be just as useful.

What you'd have to actually do is, write an interface to the in-game DB (once the game is started), that only allowed you access to your own side. From there, you make the change, and it would notify the other player that the the game has been changed, and request permission to continue the game. That only notifies the only player that a change has been made tho. It doesn't keep you from making multiple "unauthorized" changes. But you also wouldn't necessarily want to notify the opponent of all the changes made : maybe 2nd USMC Div warped to Tville, and it's supposed to be in Noumea. You wouldn't want the opponent to know what happened either way.

-F-

[Mr.Frag]

Save game editing brings into play trust issues and would likely result in the end of PBEM.

It's not that you *would* cheat, it's that it becomes impossible to know if you *did* cheat.

The trust is gone ... and everytime something went bad for someone, in the back of their mind, they would be thinking ... "the only way that could have gone wrong is he knew what i was doing"

It's been talked about many times and the same end result happens no matter how you look at it.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Save game editing brings into play trust issues and would likely result in the end of PBEM.

It's not that you *would* cheat, it's that it becomes impossible to know if you *did* cheat.
The trust is gone ... and everytime something went bad for someone, in the back of their mind, they would be thinking ... "the only way that could have gone wrong is he knew what i was doing"

It's been talked about many times and the same end result happens no matter how you look at it.

I am really at a loss here. There is no way to give a database editor that dosen't give the current location of units in play?

And no one would know if you opened the database?

[Mr.Frag]

No ...

You get an email, it has a save attached. You save the file to two different locations. One you play with, the other you open in the editor and screw with. Pretty simple stuff.

It would have the same effect as me posting your game password ... once I did, would you want to continue to play a PBEM game knowing the other player can now see all your moves?

Data is data is data ... once you have access to it, it can not be taken away.

[Nikademus]

lol....."Release the code!"

always makes me think of Mr Burns saying "Release the Hounds!"

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I guess familarity with the DB and scenario design, might give me a little insight into how you could cheat with the editor.

But yes, there are plenty of ways to screw-ball a game without actually deleting/moving units.

The other thing to mention is, you can see both friendly/enemy units in the DB. Knowing the location of enemy units (recorded in the DB), can be just as useful.

What you'd have to actually do is, write an interface to the in-game DB (once the game is started), that only allowed you access to your own side. From there, you make the change, and it would notify the other player that the the game has been changed, and request permission to continue the game. That only notifies the only player that a change has been made tho. It doesn't keep you from making multiple "unauthorized" changes. But you also wouldn't necessarily want to notify the opponent of all the changes made : maybe 2nd USMC Div warped to Tville, and it's supposed to be in Noumea. You wouldn't want the opponent to know what happened either way.

-F-

There's still no TRUST issues if you allow editing of non-PBEM AI games. As I stated above, it would be simple to put code in the editor to not allow a PBEM save game to be edited but allow solo AI games to be

[Feinder]

Well I can tell you who you -can't- trust = Knavey.

He used to move around his units in Squad Leader, and peek under the little "?" counters. Have pages with different versions of the "secret setup" units. He'd make up rules for Panzer Leader, "My German tanks get 2x their attack strength, because they're elite troops."

Never trust your older brother.

[:-]

And that was when the ingame database was an OB card, and an industry points track.

-F-

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Well I can tell you who you -can't- trust = Knavey.

He used to move around his units in Squad Leader, and peek under the little "?" counters. Have pages with different versions of the "secret setup" units. He'd make up rules for Panzer Leader, "My German tanks get 2x their attack strength, because they're elite troops."

Never trust your older brother.

[:-]

And that was when the ingame database was an OB card, and an industry points track.

-F-

I knew some one who did things like that too - sneaking and re-arranging counters in ASL when you left the room!....UNBELIEVABLE!! [X(]LOL!

Oh well - trust must be adjusted by who your playing against!

[bradfordkay]

Ha!! I had a friend way back who had added German merchant raiders to AH's Jutland. I didn't mind him including them as I figured that they'd be easy meat for the Grand Fleet, or even Beatty's battlecruisers. Imagine my surprise when I found out that his merchant raiders had a more powerful broadside than HMS Agincourt!!!! His justification was "element of surprise"... [8|]

[Mr.Frag]

As I stated above, it would be simple to put code in the editor to not allow a PBEM save game to be edited but allow solo AI games to be

And it would be equally simple to change the 1 bit in the save file that says "i'm pbem" then load it into said editor ...

Why is it that everyone says "it would be simple to code" ?

Like coders are little people with the IQ of 10 who do nothing worthy of any respect [:D]

[Big B]

Can't we all - just get along?

[Mr.Frag]

Can't we all - just get along?

Didn't he get shot by someone? Perhaps he said that once too often [X(]

On a more serious note. The developer feels VERY strongly about this issue to the point of recoding the file format of saves if anyone even thinks hard about putting out an editor.

[testarossa]

ORIGINAL: Big B
I am really at a loss here. There is no way to give a database editor that dosen't give the current location of units in play?

1. There is a way to change a database for current games. Remember 1.60 (?) patch? It added some changes to database, Japanese player had to activate them.

2. it is possible to cheat in current game too (for Japanese). Change accuracy of naval guns, bombs and torpedoes, put 5000000 oil in Japan and 1000000 supplies at Truk, Canton, Hanoi etc. (device trick was done to me once, it’s my guess). Many of us play CHS, or other mods so there is no way to know if we play "stock" CHS or "edited" CHS.

3. There should be some kind of audit routine (report) inside the scenario. Showing what changes were made (at least for devices, units and supplies).

4. Having this kind of audit it's possible to implement some kind of in game editor allowing tweaking devices and units and both sides will see what changes were made. Protect passwords, unit locations etc. whatever necessary.

5. Who would spend some development time on the "abandoned" game? I guess our usual browncoats from CHS team. That would require some kind code release to them and NDA.

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

As I stated above, it would be simple to put code in the editor to not allow a PBEM save game to be edited but allow solo AI games to be

And it would be equally simple to change the 1 bit in the save file that says "i'm pbem" then load it into said editor ...

Why is it that everyone says "it would be simple to code" ?

Like coders are little people with the IQ of 10 who do nothing worthy of any respect [:D]

I've been coding in the IT business for 17 years Frag so I don't like that attitude you have and consider that an insult.

It WOULD be simple to code but since it's not going to be done this is a useless thread and once again don't appreciate your flippant attitude of blowing people off all the time.