A question about transferring BG

[DudTorpedoes]

Hello.

I am playing against Japanese AI, and it's July 1942.
My question is, is it possible to transfer my west coast bomber group (B-25s)
from San Fransisco to Southeast Asian base, say Kohima, by way of
north pacific - USSR - China - Kohima? (USSR has not been activated)
(of course, I will change the command from West Coast to Southeast Asia first)
Or is there any other way to transfer a BG from west coast to Burma
other than to change its command on air unit reinforcement schedule or
to knock them down in pieces and load them onto Aks?
If I want to deploy them in Southeast Asian theater by shipping,
I have to coose the route of SF-PH-Noumea-Sydney-Perth-Colombo.
The problem is, firstly it takes too long, and secondly the sealane between
Perth-Colombo is, I think, very dangerous(I have not secured it)
I send occasional supply TFs from Karachi to Perth, and I make them go
through hexes of very west end of the game map[;)]
Enlighten me with your wisdom, plz[:D]

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: DudTorpedoes

Hello.

I am playing against Japanese AI, and it's July 1942.
My question is, is it possible to transfer my west coast bomber group (B-25s)
from San Fransisco to Southeast Asian base, say Kohima, by way of
north pacific - USSR - China - Kohima? (USSR has not been activated)
(of course, I will change the command from West Coast to Southeast Asia first)
Or is there any other way to transfer a BG from west coast to Burma
other than to change its command on air unit reinforcement schedule or
to knock them down in pieces and load them onto Aks?
If I want to deploy them in Southeast Asian theater by shipping,
I have to coose the route of SF-PH-Noumea-Sydney-Perth-Colombo.
The problem is, firstly it takes too long, and secondly the sealane between
Perth-Colombo is, I think, very dangerous(I have not secured it)
I send occasional supply TFs from Karachi to Perth, and I make them go
through hexes of very west end of the game map[;)]
Enlighten me with your wisdom, plz[:D]

1. No, I don't think there's enough range on B-25s to transfer to SEAC via the northern route.

2. If you're playing the AI you can easily go from Perth to Colombo by setting the destination of a convoy from Perth to a hex just left of the "Indian Ocean" text and then set the home port to Colombo. They'll stay pretty clear of the DEI. I actually have 6 AKs permanently based in Derby since I only shipped air groups from the West Coast to Sydney or Brisbane and then flew them via Alice Springs to Derby and then shipped them to SEAC that way.

[Mr.Frag]

Even with the range, landing aircraft at Russian base pre-activation interns them until Russia activates ... one way trip.

[niceguy2005]

Thank u mr. Frag for saying this. There has been much misunderstanding about this on the boards. I assume that there is NO russian city (pre-activation) that will not intern planes.

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Even with the range, landing aircraft at Russian base pre-activation interns them until Russia activates ... one way trip.

Is this a new feature since V1.40.

In V1.40 you can transfer in and out of Russian bases, and there is a way to transfer medium range bombers, too.

[Mr.Frag]

It was a bug ... they should have the transfer option greyed out once they land at a russian base.

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It was a bug ... they should have the transfer option greyed out once they land at a russian base.

Than, IMO, that bug was not corrected properly. They should either be allowed in and out, or they should not be allowed to land there at all. I don't see a justification for this interneering business. Is it something "historical" again?

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Dino

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It was a bug ... they should have the transfer option greyed out once they land at a russian base.

Than, IMO, that bug was not corrected properly. They should either be allowed in and out, or they should not be allowed to land there at all. I don't see a justification for this interneering business. Is it something "historical" again?

Actually, yes, it is. There are any number of aircraft and crews from both sides that flew into or landed in neutral countries and were interred for the remainder of the war. Usually they were damaged aircraft that couldn't make it back to friendly territory and the neutral country was closer, so they flew there rather than chance crashing, being shot while captured and surviving a POW camp. I believe at least one of the bombers from the Doolittle Raid made it to Soviet territory and was interred there. (Could be I'm misremembering that particular instance too. *shrug*)

[Dino]

I had to stretch my imagination a bit to see the neccessity of this design feature in WitP. No reason, IMHO, for USSR to actually intern their ALLIES, despite neutrality with Japan. WHAT IF the allies decided to send planes this way? The neutrality pact called for no hostilities, but this isn't exactly a hostile action. And even if Japan saw it differently, what could they do? Attack Russia? Well, that option is available in WitP, too. The way i see it, it's just one more "what if" gone down the drain. [:@]

There... i had to say it even though it's pointless. Guess i'm just pi$$ed off for being deprived of my favourite "gamey" tactics. [:(]

I'm sorry if i made any confusion with suggestions based on my v1.40 expirience...

But i'm not sending those boys home. [:'(]

[dtravel]

Well, in all honesty I think calling the USSR and the Western Powers "allies" is stretching things a bit. Co-belligerents, sure, but not much if anything more than that. There was no love lost and not a lot of true respect. The US shipped war material to the USSR because it was in our interest to keep them fighting Nazi Germany and Stalin accepted it because he needed it. I can easily see Stalin ordering the interrment of US aircraft and crews in the Far East Command. He wouldn't allow US/UK troops or even aircraft mechanics into the USSR to help against the Nazis. Why would he be more cooperative against a nation he wasn't ready to attack yet?

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Well, in all honesty I think calling the USSR and the Western Powers "allies" is stretching things a bit. Co-belligerents, sure, but not much if anything more than that.

I hate to do this, but...

Allies

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

When spelt with a capital A, Allies usually denotes the countries supporting the Triple Entente who fought together against the Central Powers in World War I and against the Axis Powers in World War II.

In general, allies are people or groups that have joined an alliance and are working together to achieve some common purpose. In general English usage, those who share a common goal and whose work toward that goal is complementary may be viewed as allies for various purposes even when no explicit agreement has been worked out between them. Similarly, when the term is used in the context of war or armed struggle, a formal military alliance is not required for being perceived as an ally — co-belligerence, to fight alongside someone, is enough. According to this general usage, allies become allies not when concluding an alliance treaty but when struck by war.

Also from Wikipedia:

The informal Big 3 alliance of the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, and the United States emerged in the latter half of the war, and their decisions determined Allied strategy around the world.

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I can easily see Stalin ordering the interrment of US aircraft and crews in the Far East Command.

I can't... If asked by his Ally to send them home, what exactly would he reply?

ORIGINAL: dtravel

He wouldn't allow US/UK troops or even aircraft mechanics into the USSR to help against the Nazis.

I suspect the reasons are of political and not of emotional nature...

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Why would he be more cooperative against a nation he wasn't ready to attack yet?

He is not attacking Japan, nor are those planes helping him. In fact, he is helping The Western Allies. Something he would probably be glad to brag about (for those same political reasons). Might keep quiet, tho, because of his pact with Japan.

On the other hand, i'v read discussions on this forum about helping USSR in the Russian Gambit. I don't recall anybody mentioning Stalin...

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: Dino

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I can easily see Stalin ordering the interrment of US aircraft and crews in the Far East Command.

I can't... If asked by his Ally to send them home, what exactly would he reply?

Actually quite a few American aircrew WERE interned by the Soviets. Of particular value were two or three crews of B-29s which made emergency landings in the Soviet Union (the planes were taken apart by the Soviets and used to build their first 4-engine bomber by copying the B-29 exactly).

Anyways, even though the Soviets DID intern the Americans the Americans routinely "escaped" with Soviet help usually to Iran/Iraq (if I remember right) via convoys.

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: dereck

Anyways, even though the Soviets DID intern the Americans the Americans routinely "escaped" with Soviet help usually to Iran/Iraq (if I remember right) via convoys.

In which case "intern" should also be under quotes... Anyhow, it sound like a middleground... [:)]

[Feinder]

I was gonna say (but Derek beat me to it), some of Dolittle's raiders were interned after they landed in the USSR after the raid. Most the pilots managed to return to the US eventually. But the Soviets certainly didn't give the planes back.

-F-

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I was gonna say (but Derek beat me to it), some of Dolittle's raiders were interned after they landed in the USSR after the raid. Most the pilots managed to return to the US eventually. But the Soviets certainly didn't give the planes back.

My point would be that they didn't have to escape from Russian prison in order to return to US. As for the planes, i doubt that US realy insisted... Why bother? They were sending them planes to fight the Germans anyway.

However, i was in fact immagining a differen kind of scenario... The one in which they AGREED to use the Russian soil to transfer US ACs to SEAC. But here, i guess, we run into a debate about what is historicall, probable or possible...

[Feinder]

You can do anything you want to as far as I'm concernd Dino. I understand what you're saying. There are some hard-coded things in WitP that are supposed to reflect a historical situation (like Russian internment), and others where you wonder why they weren't coded.

Either way, in order to "make it work", all you'd have to do is in the Scenario Editor, set the "russians active" flag to "on". You could create a Dec 41 scen, with that flag set, and you'd be all set. Now that would put Russia at War with Japan (so you'd have to constrain the air attacks if you didn't want that happening). But it should work.

-F-

[Nikademus]

The Russians would not allow their Allies to use their soil if it was theater related to the war on Japan. Stalin was adamant that the peace between the USSR and Japan remain intact......for the time being.

The Russians made it hard enough to cooporate with in their mutual struggle against Germany as it was....

[Dino]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

The Russians would not allow their Allies to use their soil if it was theater related to the war on Japan. Stalin was adamant that the peace between the USSR and Japan remain intact......for the time being.

Thats Stalin... not me. [;)]

[Nikademus]

oh i know....thats why the rules regarding Russia were shored up. [;)]

[spence]

Even with the range, landing aircraft at Russian base pre-activation interns them until Russia activates ... one way trip.

I'm not sure which version it was; v1.605 or later beta but I transferred a P-40B (that teleported to San Francisco from a freighter in Rangoon harbor) through Russia to China.

[The P-40 in question was the last fragment of the AVG, was damaged and stranded at Rangoon along with 30 AVG pilots. Heavy bombing was gonna take it out sooner or later so I put it on an AK and tried to sail away. The turn after loading onto the AK it had disappeared (the AK was still afloat halfway to Chandpur). I found it in SF after some searching (figured it must be around somewhere since I couldn't recombine the sqdrns of the AVG). Given the "buggy" circumstances I figured trying the Northern route wasn't really that "gamey". And it worked.]

PBEM BTW