Minewarfare Questions

[Dereck]

This is somewhat embarassing, but I really don't know the answers to the following questions and wonder if anybody else does who would be kind enough to enlighten me.

1. I only play against the AI and I was wondering if the AI conducts mine warfare, i.e. lays minefields, etc.

2. How do minesweepers work? I've been going through my OOB and between the USN and allied navies I must end up having well over 100 minesweepers if not more and figure in my next game to homeport a certain number at each port to condinuously sweep for mines in case the AI tries laying any on me.

Thanks

[dtravel]

I don't think the AI lays offensive minefields (i.e. at your bases). At least I've never seen any evidence it has in my games. I think it will lay defensive minefields but to be honest, I haven't played in several months and its been almost a year since I was on the offensive so it could be just my senility talking. [:'(]

[jwilkerson]

Well I only play PBEM ( except for testing against the AI ) so I can't answer Q1 .. but for Q2 ... you can put them in your ports on patrol mode ... make sure they are undocked ... and they will sweep enemy mines ( assuming this is frinedly port ). Otherwise drive them through hexes contining mines and they will locate and sweep the fields. If the AI doesn't lay minefields etc. in its own ports .. then you can use your minesweepers as escorts until you do an invasion. Then having an MSW TF or 2 along will ensure the mines are sweep and reduce the damage to your other TFs ... NOT having MSW TFs will increase the damage your other TFs take, this maybe the only time you'll really need MSW TFs against the AI.

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: dtravel

I don't think the AI lays offensive minefields (i.e. at your bases). At least I've never seen any evidence it has in my games. I think it will lay defensive minefields but to be honest, I haven't played in several months and its been almost a year since I was on the offensive so it could be just my senility talking. [:'(]

I resemble that remark ... I think ... what was I just saying?

[Dereck]

Well, even if the AI doesn't mine my ports I think I'll get in the habit of assuming it does (just to get in the habit in case the sun rises in the west and pigs fly and I play PBEM).

[jwilkerson]

Good plan !!! Some players will mine you to extreme frustration !!!

( though much harder to do as the Japanese than as the Allies .. the Japanese only have 4 ML subs )

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Good plan !!! Some players will mine you to extreme frustration !!!

( though much harder to do as the Japanese than as the Allies .. the Japanese only have 4 ML subs )

And the Allies have how many? Argonaut (I upgrade it so it becomes a transport sub for historical sake), two Dutch subs and one RN sub late in the war. That makes 4 each by my math, but basically two since one arrives so late it has no impact and if Argonaut is refitted.

[rockmedic109]

The AI will lay defensive minefields. I've run into a few when trying to bombard early japanese confiscations. The AI will send a ML with an invasion force, and after the troops take the place over, lays mines. Lost the Australia at Rabaul because of this.

Early on, I like to make transport tfs on Continous Supply missions of MSWs. A weak patrol, but does increase their skill level.

[jwilkerson]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Good plan !!! Some players will mine you to extreme frustration !!!

( though much harder to do as the Japanese than as the Allies .. the Japanese only have 4 ML subs )

And the Allies have how many? Argonaut (I upgrade it so it becomes a transport sub for historical sake), two Dutch subs and one RN sub late in the war. That makes 4 each by my math, but basically two since one arrives so late it has no impact and if Argonaut is refitted.

Allies seem to be able to use all but the smallest subs for mine laying so that would make it 100+ from what my opponents tell me ...

[Mr.Frag]

And the Allies have how many? Argonaut (I upgrade it so it becomes a transport sub for historical sake), two Dutch subs and one RN sub late in the war. That makes 4 each by my math, but basically two since one arrives so late it has no impact and if Argonaut is refitted.

Don't need subs with all the heavy bombers to drop mines ... carpet bombing turns to carpet mining on Jan 1, 1943

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag


Don't need subs with all the heavy bombers to drop mines ... carpet bombing turns to carpet mining on Jan 1, 1943

What should´t be done as long the "bug" exists that mine laying bombers can´t be intercepted by cap! [:-]

[testarossa]

Keep a couple of MSWs at the base. Op losses and no results will stop mining.

[bradfordkay]

Derek, I have never seen the AI conduct offensive mining operations in all my time playing UV/WITP. You will need the MSWs later when you start invading the AIs bases, but in the meantime their best use is to escort convoys.

[spence]

What should´t be done as long the "bug" exists that mine laying bombers can´t be intercepted by cap!

Check out that article on aerial minelaying that's on page 2 herein: titled something like "Possibly interesting article or whatever". Doesn't look like a bug at all. The number of bombers engaged in mining that were lost from all causes was very small.

I've never seen the AI do offensive mining.

And this appears to be a little trick one can use as the IJN. Send a TF of PCs, PGs, APDs and whatever other (non minesweeper) small stuff you can find into an enemy hex with a minefield and CD combination. The PCs are pretty good at cleaning out some mines and the CDs don't engage. Works with DDs too but the occasional "I found one (BOOM)" hurts a little when it's a DD. The PCs, etc clear mines one by one so this wouldn't work well with a really big minefield (MSWs sweep a lane but then again MSWs get blown to pieces by the CD units). It seems to work pretty good in the DEI where the Allies are likely to have relatively small minefields.

[castor troy]

so you say that´s right if 100 bombers mining e.g. Truk where 200 fighters are on cap and they can´t be intercepted. So that´s how history was brought into that game... [8|]

for me it´s a bug and is house ruled in my games.

[el cid again]

And the Allies have how many? Argonaut

First - ALL Japanese subs are rated to lay mines - look in your editor.

Second- Argonaut is NOT a minelayer! This was fixed in UV - did they unfix it again? Argonaut was modified to a transport sub and had no mine laying gear at all. Too bad too - the special mines for her were never used.

Third - I think ALL Allied subs are also rated to lay mines if you like. In fact, I do so at least half the time - and never have found one that won't.

[el cid again]

so you say that´s right if 100 bombers mining e.g. Truk where 200 fighters are on cap and they can´t be intercepted. So that´s how history was brought into that game...

for me it´s a bug and is house ruled in my games.

How do fighters on CAP intercept small vessels operating at night? When the USN raided Balikpapan, the IJN rear admiral believed they were a single, Dutch submarine! Things are really hard to understand at night. A generation later I saw a night battle in the Gulf of Siam. Even with what we regarded as "modern" radar (not imaging radar like RN uses today) we were confused, and ultimately failed in our mission. Night battle is inherantly confusing.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

And the Allies have how many? Argonaut

First - ALL Japanese subs are rated to lay mines - look in your editor.

Second- Argonaut is NOT a minelayer! This was fixed in UV - did they unfix it again? Argonaut was modified to a transport sub and had no mine laying gear at all. Too bad too - the special mines for her were never used.

Third - I think ALL Allied subs are also rated to lay mines if you like. In fact, I do so at least half the time - and never have found one that won't.

Sorry, Argonaut IS a minelayer on 7dec41. It was an error in UV because Argonaut converted to a "raiding submarine transport" prior to the start of UV. If you allow Argonaut to upgrade, she loses the special minlaying capabilty in early 42 (don't remember the exact date). Most people would rather have a minelayer than a transport so they do not allow the upgrade.

[el cid again]

Derek, I have never seen the AI conduct offensive mining operations in all my time playing UV/WITP.

OK - I'll bite. When you hit a mine, were did it come from?

[spence]

I think what he means is that he never encountered an AI laid mine in one of his own bases.

My experience in UV/WitP is that I have only encountered mines in enemy bases that I entered for one reason or another (defensive field); never in one of my own bases (offensive field).

A mine is explicitly OFFENSIVE to any ship that hits one[:D][:D][:D]