Is this an idea or what?

[Ron Saueracker]

This is a variation of an idea TankerAce and I were tossing about a couple years ago when talking about making a non respawn version of the grand scenario (project morphed into CHS). Regarding major refits/rebuilds. How about inserting refit status classes with damage into the refit trees of ships which undergo major rebuilds? Unfortunately this has to be done per class to maintain the tree progression (I originally was thinking of having generic time period yard refit classes but impossible as each class needs an upgrade path number assigned.)

I'm specifically talking about those ships which undergo major rebuilds like the USN prewar BBs. Granted, all the rebuilds originated due to severe damage at Pearl Harbor and were obvious decisions given the extent of damage. All except Tenessee, however. She went into her rebuild damage free and it lasted over nine months. West Virginia's lasted thirty months (including repairs). In any event, these are now handled by the refit engine and basically require perhaps a mere month to complete.

I'm suggesting that an "undergoing refit" phase for each class which has an historical major refit be added to it's tree, with system damage relative to the length of refit. For these big BB rebuilds like California and Maryland classes I suggest the damage assigned to the refit class be 99 sys dam (takes approx 10 months to repair in a size 10 port). Because a ship must be lower than 6 system damage to initiate a refit this will work.

Examples of ships which could use this "undergoing refit" class because of major rebuilds with suggested damage penalty).
Clemson DDs to APDs (major rebuild; 50 system damage)
Taney CGC (the two major rebuilds she had could use this; 50 system damage)
Porter DDs (the major superstructure refit, 4/42,and the major AA/rebuild 1944; 50 system damage)
Mahan DDs (the major superstructure cutdown refit, now 4/42, suggest change to 1/42; 50 system damage)
Brooklyn CLs (final 1945 refit as per Savannah...bulging, major new AA; 75 system damage)
Northampton CAs (the major 1944 refit with profile change; 50 system damage)
Portland CAs (as for Northamptons)
Pensacola CAs (the major superstructure/AA final refit; 50 system damage)
Lexington CVs (the major 1942 bulging and AA refit; 25 system damage)
Yorktown CVs (the major 1944 bulging and AA refit 25 system damage)
Nevada BBs (the major 1943 superstructure/AA rebuild 33 system damage)
Pennsyvania BBs (as for Nevada's)
California BBs (complete rebuild 99 system damage)
Maryland BBs (intermediate rebuild as per Maryland and Colorado 33 system damage; + complete rebuild as per West Virginia 66 system damage...one can stop at the intermediate or continue to full at same total system damage penalty as California)
Leander CLs (major 43 AA refit with C turret removal; 50 system damage)
Colony CLs (as for Leanders)

This would require a number of currently unavailable slots but important enough to remove/group together some otherwise unimportant class disticntions (ie PG Isabel and Sans Peur could be combined, MSW Chevrueil, Dutch ABC and Catbird classes could be combined etc...) We would also require a few cool refitting profiles for the ships, you know, cranes, yard smoke and debris etc![;)]

Obviously this could be used in less "historical OOB" scenarios than the non respawn CHS. For example, perhaps 4 Cleveland Class CLs can be made into a seperate ClevelandCL/IndependenceCVL conversion class to remedy the loss of 4 Essex Class CVs to the questionable respawn design. A CL?CVL "undergoing refit" class can be added as well, with what, a 99 system damage penalty to simulate the major yard time required?

[Dereck]

Good idea but let me play devil's advocate over one feature of the game which I don't think is realistic.

The way repair works it's random. So 50 SYS damage you really have no idea how long it will take to repair whereas in a real shipyard the shipyard would be able to give a pretty good estimate of how long a refit and repair work would take. There would be no guessing when something would get done. This is just examples but you'd be able to put a ship with 50 SYS damage in port on January 1 and know you'd get it back around March 1 or so.

With as much SYS damage as some of your refits suggest and the random nature of repairing damage in this game, you could clog up a shipyard for a long long time - maybe longer than actually required.

[rockmedic109]

Too bad you cannot have an American Withdrawal and a susequent reinforcement with the new refit.

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Too bad you cannot have an American Withdrawal and a susequent reinforcement with the new refit.

I'm against an American ship withdrawal for the very simple reason that with the exception of maybe transport ships any ships that were sent to the Pacific tended to stay there until their were either sunk, damaged to where they had to go to east coast shipyards for repair (and then came back) or the war ended.

There were two train of thoughts about the Pacific war. To the British Admiralty the main war was in Europe. To the American Navy the main war was in the Pacific and that's where they (FADM King) sent as much as he could.

[rockmedic109]

Trying to think of a way to implement Ron's refit idea. Another thought on his large refit sys damage: would having that many ships refitting {repairing 50% sys damage from a refit} overload the shipyard facilities of the west coast?

Repairing a Pearl Harbor strike needs to have the damaged ships spread out along the west coast or it can overload the shipyard points available. Or maybe it should.

[Dereck]

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Trying to think of a way to implement Ron's refit idea. Another thought on his large refit sys damage: would having that many ships refitting {repairing 50% sys damage from a refit} overload the shipyard facilities of the west coast?

Repairing a Pearl Harbor strike needs to have the damaged ships spread out along the west coast or it can overload the shipyard points available. Or maybe it should.

I think it would overload the shipyards. And I don't think it should.

We were building ships in record time (36 hours once for a Liberty ship I believe). Refits would be something that would, unlike battle damage, have had lead time and been scheduled so they could get the ships in and out as quickly as possible. Planned refits wouldn't overload shipyards.

[witpqs]

I agree with Dereck. Maybe Ron's idea is good but the SYS damage should be somethings like 20-25% for the big ships, not 50-99%. For destroyers, maybe 50% would work.