Common WiF rules errors

[Cheesehead]

In order to assist with the tutorial and manual I thought I'd share some of my stumbles with the rules. I think this is what Greyshaft wants from Newbies...and I was one not too long ago.

I purchased my WiF game in 2002 after reading Matrix Games announcement that it was putting the game on computer. I thought I would get a head start on learning the rules. I’m glad I did because I spent about 6 months reading through the rules, setting up the game, playing out different situations, etc.

I thought that I had mastered the rules fairly well when I played my first tutorial scenarios (Barbarossa and Guadalcanal). It turns out I was wrong. I made some glaring errors by the time I played my first experienced opponent. These are the rules I initially misunderstood:

Naval movement.
I missed the part about not being able to move from sea zone to sea zone. My first opponent was just as inexperienced as I was. We were moving our ships all over the Pacific during the Guadalcanal scenario. Once we realized that when you move a fleet into a sea zone...it stays in that sea zone for the entire turn (not impulse) unless it returns to port in which case it flips.
possible reason for our confusion:
Discerning the difference between an impulse and a turn.
under 11.4.2 Moving naval units it says,”you can only move a naval unit if it is face-up in a sea box or in a port.” It does say right above this in 11.4.1 “that you can’t start a naval move in one sea area and end its move in another” but it didn’t register at the time.

Naval combat
I’ve never had too much difficulty with naval combat, even though it is rather complicated the first time through. What did take some thorough reading of the rules was determining what type of combat takes place and who gets to decide. It helps to create a rubric that follows something like this:
Does either side have naval air that can fly (ie. not storm or blizzard)?
Does that person(s) wish to make it an air combat? If the answer is yes, than it is an air combat. If not...
Does either side have subs? If yes, does the opponent have convoy points?
Does that person(s) wish to make it a sub combat? If not...
It is a surface combat, unless...
One of the sides has enough surprise points to choose the combat type.

The other aspect of naval combat that can be confusing is the multiple rounds aspect. If an air unit is aborted during air-to-air, it aborts to the sea zone, and it may fight again in a subsequent round of combat.

Supply
I misinterpreted the supply rules up through last August 2005, even though I’d played a campaign game, albeit with another inexperienced player. My mistake was thinking any unit could trace a basic supply path to a rail hex (any hex with a rail in it) as long as it traced back to a primary supply source. So, for example, German subs in Brest were operating in the Atlantic without a HQ anywhere in France, Russian ground units were set up in Poland without a HQ anywhere near them and not within 4 hexes of Russian cities were all OOS at the time of Barbarossa. (Thanks, Nicklas) [;)]
possible reasons for confusion:
I have since discovered that a lot of new players get this rule wrong. I don’t think the rule is poorly written, it just requires an understanding of the concept of secondary supply sources. This concept is somewhat unique to WiF when comparing it to other wargames, which usually have more direct supply paths, from the unit straight back to the home country without an intermediary.

Strategic bombing and production points
I misinterpreted the method of applying the damage done by strat bombing. I applied the damage to that individual factory rather than production points, so it made no sense for Germany to strat bomb French factories since they always had around 5 factories that couldn’t produce because of limited resources. I failed to catch the subtlety of the rule which states (11.7) “If the target is a factory hex, that number of production points will be lost from the factory owner’s production point total for the turn.
possible reasons for confusion:
It is intuitive to consider the factory you bombed as being the one to lose production capacity for that turn. Also, some beginners might fail to see that it is production points that are lost as opposed to build points. The rule is too subtle. It needs to be rewritten to emphasize the decrease in PP totals, not just the disruption (or destruction) of that particular factory.

[Froonp]

The other aspect of naval combat that can be confusing is the multiple rounds aspect. If an air unit is aborted during air-to-air, it aborts to the sea zone, and it may fight again in a subsequent round of combat.

A Land based Air unit (LBA) aborted during Air to Air combat aborts to an hex. Not to the sea zone. It is unavailable for next round.
Only carrier planes abot to their carriers, and are available for next round (14.3.3).

[Cheesehead]

A Land based Air unit (LBA) aborted during Air to Air combat aborts to an hex. Not to the sea zone. It is unavailable for next round.
Only carrier planes abot to their carriers, and are available for next round (14.3.3).

You are correct. This thread pays immediate dividends [:)]

Thanks

[Greyshaft]

Great stuff!

[Ballista]

When the game goes live, we may wish to sticky a thread for rules questions and their answers- distilled from the forum...

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: Ballista

When the game goes live, we may wish to sticky a thread for rules questions and their answers- distilled from the forum...

I see the possibility of four inter-related mechanisms.

1. Tutorial - abso-bluddy-lutely essential. It will be the first port of call for most newbies and reviewers of the game.
2. Help system - mainly for interface related questions - "How to I save a game in progress?"
3. FAQ - Distilled from Forum conversations - "What is 'flipping'? How do you unflip a unit? Why would I want to do that?"
4. Game Rules - ZOCs, Oil rules, combat processes, Sequence of Play - All the stuff that came with cardboard WIF (Obviously modified where necessary to reflect the computer environment).

How all these fit together is as yet unknown. That is not my decision to make. I just started the ball rolling because I want to take advantage of the newbie virginal testers being exposed to WiF and to document their learning experience. I hope the rest of you newbies out there aren't polluting yourself by learning the WiF rulebook. When it comes time for the next intake of testers we will want more MWiF virgins to sacrifice on the altar of Writing the Tutorial. Keep yourself pure!!!

[c92nichj]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

The other aspect of naval combat that can be confusing is the multiple rounds aspect. If an air unit is aborted during air-to-air, it aborts to the sea zone, and it may fight again in a subsequent round of combat.

A Land based Air unit (LBA) aborted during Air to Air combat aborts to an hex. Not to the sea zone. It is unavailable for next round.
Only carrier planes abot to their carriers, and are available for next round (14.3.3).

Unless you voluntary abort after one round of airtoaircombat, then you only abort to the seazone and can try for a better search split. This rule have been greatly debated on the main wiflist and is one of the reasons why Land based air are so effective, as they should be, in my opinion.

[stretch]

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

[I want to take advantage of the newbie virginal testers being exposed to WiF and to document their learning experience. I hope the rest of you newbies out there aren't polluting yourself by learning the WiF rulebook.

well now there's an interesting statement. I think I may fit in an interesting category. I'm a newbie tester by definition, however I have actually played a complete game of WiF5 against a human. But that was several years ago. So while i know flipping and reorg'ing, and the sequence of play and all things basic... I definitely am still shocked at how many rules I have forgotten or blatantly misunderstood. As I get into testing, I want to take special care to note those things.. the ones I didn't recall after time and especially the ones I think I did wrong.

The question is.. do I read RAW7 before I begin to test, or do I go in cold and note what i have to look up. I think the latter approach may prove more valuable.

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: stretch
The question is.. do I read RAW7 before I begin to test, or do I go in cold and note what i have to look up. I think the latter approach may prove more valuable.

Go in cold. I want you to record your Q&A session with Mziln and Peter Kanjorski. Remember you are the newbie so you can 'play dumb' with those guys and get them to explain everything twice.[;)]

(For the benefit on non-testers)
We have created five three-man Tutorial Teams who will be recording their email interactions as the newbie learns the game. Analysis of the emails will give us a better understanding of where the problems are and hopefully give us some snappy answers to the tough questions. In a couple of months we will be recruiting additional newbies to go through the same process.

In between all of this we will have some fun playing the game.

[pak19652002]

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

ORIGINAL: stretch
The question is.. do I read RAW7 before I begin to test, or do I go in cold and note what i have to look up. I think the latter approach may prove more valuable.

Go in cold. I want you to record your Q&A session with Mziln and Peter Kanjorski. Remember you are the newbie so you can 'play dumb' with those guys and get them to explain everything twice.[;)]

First of all, I'm jealous of all you guys with the cool handles. Greyshaft, Mzlin, Cheesehead, Stretch, etc. I don't even have a proper avatar. All I have is my own boring name and stupid Yahoo! email address. This situation must be rectified!

Second, I'm looking forward to working with my tutorial group, Stretch and Mzlin. I take it that we aren't supposed to do anything prior to testing and that we are to wait for the newbie (Stretch) to ask questions.

Peter

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: pak19652002
...I'm looking forward to working with my tutorial group, Stretch and Mzlin. I take it that we aren't supposed to do anything prior to testing and that we are to wait for the newbie (Stretch) to ask questions.

Peter

Not quite. Pretend Stretch is a new player at your game of cardboard WIF. Ask him what he knows and then explain the game to him. So Stretch, maybe you can start by telling these guys what you know about WiF. (You are allowed to play dumb). THey will look up the rules and explain the how to play the BArbarossa scenario of MWiF. Stretch will accumulate the emails and (when I ask) send them to me so I can distil a Tutorial from them.

Stretch is not allowed to read the rulebook (This applies to all the newbies in the Tutorial Teams). The Gurus read the rules and explain the answers to the newbies via email.

Do not post your answers in the Forums. I want the five teams to work independantly.

This explanation was going to wait until we were all in the Private Forum, but since you asked...

[stretch]

just so you know I wasn't being lazy.. I was waiting for the private forum to open up before I started [:)]

and based on this thread I already know my first question. If I can steal someone's wide open wireless network from my grandmothers house, I'll send something later today [:D]

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

First of all, I'm jealous of all you guys with the cool handles. Greyshaft, Mzlin, Cheesehead, Stretch, etc. I don't even have a proper avatar. All I have is my own boring name and stupid Yahoo! email address. This situation must be rectified!

Second, I'm looking forward to working with my tutorial group, Stretch and Mzlin. I take it that we aren't supposed to do anything prior to testing and that we are to wait for the newbie (Stretch) to ask questions.

Peter

You cant do much about your login (handle) since you selected it when you signed up for the forums. But...



Click on "My Control Panel"

Under "My avatar" click to "choose avatars" and you can assign an avatar (or picture) to go with your login.

If you click on my name you can also see I have "Set up profile photo" heh heh.

[wfzimmerman]

[/quote]

First of all, I'm jealous of all you guys with the cool handles. Greyshaft, Mzlin, Cheesehead, Stretch, etc. I don't even have a proper avatar. All I have is my own boring name and stupid Yahoo! email address. This situation must be rectified!

Peter
[/quote]

I feel the same way. Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George decided that he wanted to be known as "T-Bone."

--T

[Greyshaft]

WFZ,
check out post #9 and #11 in this thread. I think they answer the email you sent me.

[Cheesehead]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

The other aspect of naval combat that can be confusing is the multiple rounds aspect. If an air unit is aborted during air-to-air, it aborts to the sea zone, and it may fight again in a subsequent round of combat.
A Land based Air unit (LBA) aborted during Air to Air combat aborts to an hex. Not to the sea zone. It is unavailable for next round.
Only carrier planes abot to their carriers, and are available for next round (14.3.3).

Unless you voluntary abort after one round of airtoaircombat, then you only abort to the seazone and can try for a better search split. This rule have been greatly debated on the main wiflist and is one of the reasons why Land based air are so effective, as they should be, in my opinion.

I think Patrice has got it right. It says in 14.3.3 under AA effect ..."return the chosen unit to any controlled hex within range (or, for a carrier plane, to the sea box section from which it started)."

It doesn't include LBA flying in the sea zone in this last qualifier so I think the omission is deliberate. If the LBA does voluntarily abort the air combat it does return to the sea zone, so I think you've got it backwards, Nicklas. I consulted with my gaming group this weekend and they all agree with this.

[mlees]

I think Patrice has got it right. It says in 14.3.3 under AA effect ..."return the chosen unit to any controlled hex within range (or, for a carrier plane, to the sea box section from which it started)."

It doesn't include LBA flying in the sea zone in this last qualifier so I think the omission is deliberate. If the LBA does voluntarily abort the air combat it does return to the sea zone, so I think you've got it backwards, Nicklas. I consulted with my gaming group this weekend and they all agree with this.

Hmmm. I have an old copy of CWiF, and it handles it thusly:

When you are forced to abort a non-carrier Naval Air due to AA fire, it must return to a controlled hex, not the sea zone. It flips.

When you abort a non-carrier Naval Air due to air-air combat results, it remains available for the next round of search rolls.

[Mziln]

ORIGINAL: Froonp

The other aspect of naval combat that can be confusing is the multiple rounds aspect. If an air unit is aborted during air-to-air, it aborts to the sea zone, and it may fight again in a subsequent round of combat.

A Land based Air unit (LBA) aborted during Air to Air combat aborts to an hex. Not to the sea zone. It is unavailable for next round.
Only carrier planes abot to their carriers, and are available for next round (14.3.3).

Partice this is probablly the statement he has issue with.

14.3.2 Combat

Resolving the combat

If you decide to voluntarily abort the air-to-air combat, apply an ‘A’ result (see 14.3.3) to every aircraft and carrier plane unit you have in the combat (exception: in naval air combats, you return aircraft and carrier plane units that voluntarily abort to the sea-box section they started from).

It is possible for both sides to voluntarily abort the same combat.

14.3.3 Combat results

11.3 Naval air missions

Naval air missions allow aircraft to patrol a sea area or to return from patrolling a sea area.

Unlike most other air missions, you don’t fly a naval air mission against an enemy target. You can fly it into a sea area whether there is an enemy unit there or not. You can also use a naval air mission to move an aircraft already at sea into a lower section of the sea-box or to return it to base.

Only a face-up aircraft can fly a naval air mission. It must be either a FTR or an aircraft with an air-to-sea factor instead of an asterisk.

Although carrier planes are still included in naval air combats in their sea area, they don’t fly naval air missions (SiF option 56: except carrier planes flying as LNDs or FTRs, rather than from a CV ~ see 14.4.1).

11.5.3 Naval air interception

Once combat is initiated in a sea area, each side (active side first) can fly aircraft units into it. You can only fly units that could fly a naval air mission into that sea area (see 11.3).You can’t fly naval air interception missions if you chose a pass action.

An aircraft flying a naval air interception mission flies it like a naval air mission except that:

(a) the aircraft flies with only half its range; and
(b) a naval air interception mission doesn’t count against your air mission limits.

You can fly an aircraft into any sea-box section it has the range to reach, even a section that doesn’t already contain friendly units.

In this case LBA would abort to the the sea zone.

Return to base

After the mission is completed, return surviving aircraft units (except carrier planes) to any friendly controlled hex within their range (doubled if they were flying at extended range). Carrier planes return to the sea-box section they flew from. Turn all units that return from a mission face-down.

Naval air and naval air interception missions are different - each aircraft stays in the sea area and keeps its current facing, face-up or face-down.

Rebase missions are also different - you do not turn the rebasing aircraft unit face-down after the mission is over.

[Cheesehead]

quote:

I think Patrice has got it right. It says in 14.3.3 under AA effect ..."return the chosen unit to any controlled hex within range (or, for a carrier plane, to the sea box section from which it started)."

It doesn't include LBA flying in the sea zone in this last qualifier so I think the omission is deliberate. If the LBA does voluntarily abort the air combat it does return to the sea zone, so I think you've got it backwards, Nicklas. I consulted with my gaming group this weekend and they all agree with this.

Hmmm. I have an old copy of CWiF, and it handles it thusly:

When you are forced to abort a non-carrier Naval Air due to AA fire, it must return to a controlled hex, not the sea zone. It flips.

When you abort a non-carrier Naval Air due to air-air combat results, it remains available for the next round of search rolls.

I think CWiF used WiF5 rules, so that is probably not the best authority.

By AA result, I meant the AA as in Attacker Aborts, not Anti-Air...the same would apply to DA.

I'd be curious to know how Steve is writing this rule...[&:]

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Cheesehead

quote:

I think Patrice has got it right. It says in 14.3.3 under AA effect ..."return the chosen unit to any controlled hex within range (or, for a carrier plane, to the sea box section from which it started)."

It doesn't include LBA flying in the sea zone in this last qualifier so I think the omission is deliberate. If the LBA does voluntarily abort the air combat it does return to the sea zone, so I think you've got it backwards, Nicklas. I consulted with my gaming group this weekend and they all agree with this.

Hmmm. I have an old copy of CWiF, and it handles it thusly:

When you are forced to abort a non-carrier Naval Air due to AA fire, it must return to a controlled hex, not the sea zone. It flips.

When you abort a non-carrier Naval Air due to air-air combat results, it remains available for the next round of search rolls.

I think CWiF used WiF5 rules, so that is probably not the best authority.

By AA result, I meant the AA as in Attacker Aborts, not Anti-Air...the same would apply to DA.

I'd be curious to know how Steve is writing this rule...[&:]

I have looked at very few of the rules as they are written in CWIF. I certainly haven't been methodical about it (yet).

CWIF handles the rules as a mass of boolean logic with the norm being 6 to 10 lines of boolean conditional phrases that end up setting a single variable as True/False - permitted/not permitted. Some of them run to 20 lines.

I have examined, decoded, commented, simplified, and corrected the ones relating to setting up a game. That might not sound like much, but it includes at lot of odd pieces of the game: neutrality pacts, declarations of war, US entry, conquered countries, liberated countries, controlling territory, Vichy France, aligned nations, incomplete conquest, captured units, controlling units of aligned nations, Siberians, Liners, stacking limits, force pools, air reserves, and more weird bits.

Actual movement and combat I have not looked at, so right now it is as CWIF handled it.