Arty effectiveness?

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

Please note that unit cost evaluation routine in programmer's options was designed for artillery at 100%. Increaing to 150% will make artillery very effective and very, very cheap. Same applies to cost of armor and infantry.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Alby

combat log
Artillery set at 150% vs armor

155mm How firing indirect, range 34 hexes
~SdKfz 251/10 is hit, Suspension damaged by 155mm M1918 M1
155mm How has no spotter

155mm How firing indirect, range 35 hexes
155mm How firing indirect, range 35 hexes
GE Recon Team DESTROYED ****
~PzKpfw III M is hit, FRONT HULL hit by 155mm M1918 M1, using HE ammo, ~Pen 68, Armor 65, PzKpfw III M DESTROYED
155mm How firing indirect, range 35 hexes
~PzKpfw III M is hit, Suspension damaged by 155mm M1918 M1
155mm How has no spotter

155mm How firing indirect, range 33 hexes
~Tiger I (early) is hit, Ineffective suspension hit by
155mm How has no spotter

155mm How firing indirect, range 32 hexes
~Panther G is hit, Suspension damaged by 155mm M1918 M1
155mm How firing indirect, range 32 hexes
~Panther G is hit, Bottom hit by 155mm M1918 M1, using HE ammo, ~Pen 48, Armor 10, Panther G DESTROYED

Looks like it has some effect at 150% might be setting to go with for now.
maybe [&:]

[Riun T]

And Flashfyre, you are correct snipers are exclusivly used to shoot officers, and aren't expected to report movement and accuracy of their or enemy formations in their sight on their way to shoot the enemy col. and save the day.... The sniper has the greatest frequence of radios for their #'s deployed even more radios than Recce. My godfather was a sniper in north africa in 42-43 and he said easily 75% of his missions where as u stated to be behind enemy lines, but with a field phone handset calling adjustment for their Arrty and routes of passage and safe movement for other units advance. Maybe 10% of the missions where like enemy at the gates where the snipers opperated in nieborhood teams with the task of removing the command structure of units that could give the line greater problems that he could observe or was radiod to respond to.very rarely were any snipers given the kind of freedom from command or responsablity away from covering their own units, where the hell do u think countersniper term camefrom?? [;)]RT

[Goblin]

I took your post as fairly insultive to the guys that are posting about things in this thread, Ruin. I posted comments on mortars, from a mortarman's own mouth, and from a gamers view point, and it seemed you decided to blast me and others on it. If that was not your intention, you have my apologies for my sarcasm. I don't feel well right now, and am a bit touchy.


Goblin

[Riun T]

OK,SORRY back on topic. Why I was discussing the planned use of units classification,in reference to arrty is because This is a combined force game and the input of things like visible enemy units that are seen by any of your guys affect what u can accurately call support for CORRect? Doesn't that include all the assets u have fielded and how the tactics are applied GOBLIN?? I usually have a sniper accompany my HQ and my FO so yes what my snipers see and accurately identify to range has great bearing on what my FO sees too and they advance independantly as they cover their partners. RT

[Riun T]

Hey Gobby just open your conjested nose and stuffy blurry eyes enough to get better and put up a real discussion ya big POOP
RT ANd I get miffed when people call me ruin, ITS pronounced REEun so I guess we're even EH Gobby[:D]

[bud]

as per mikes note to a % adjustemnt to artilery i would like to note that as its stands now -- artillery now in 8.403 -- lets just say for the example -- a usa 8" o/b 3x4 set with 20 rounds is about 435 points in cost -- a 155 o/d set of 3x4 is about 396 points -- ger 150 o/b 3x4 with 25 rounds is about 324 in cost --- now in ablys mod just for comparative thinking --- a usa 8" o/b set of 3x4 with 50 ROUNDS cost about 234 --- 155 3/4 with 50 about 234 - note about both the same in cost -- and a german 150 o/b 3x4 with 40 rounds is about 195 - ( info taken from 05/46 ) ----- now trying not to lose my point for this post mike ---- its bang for the buck --- over the many years of adjustments, artillery has been mostly unchanged -- cost vs effectiveness -- a slight price change here a little ammo adjustment there --- but cant remember a less effective artillery then in 8.403 -- i think the prices and amount of ammo looks great --but its back to -- THE BANG FOR THE BUCK AGAIN ---- i dont mind buying anything that may or may not be high in price as long as you get a return on your investment -- at attemping to avoid the % adjustment which after 10 years with this game i dont think i ever had to touch -- ( did do some hitting and rally for other units but not artillery in the pass ) -- now your perhaps face with finding the right % that other players will agree to play with-- when you hook up for a game -- ( am sure that will prove a interesting topic ) --- i should note trying to look back - (as far back as i could ) - to see what other players where posting to you about with there "bugs" and other concern`s i was hard press to find problems to artillery -- i know with your limited time for this game -- that once again you came through for many of the needed adjustments you made -- but am just puzzled why the artillery adjustment -- and if i understand you correctly you only adjusted "slash"--if you did more i missed it ---- 8.4 artillery -- if it ain`t broke -- well you know the rest --- thz again mike for your feed back --- bud -- ( a.k.a. - ICED ) --

[Alby]

Splash damage was reduced per players requests.
units in adjacent hexes were receiving more damage than units in the actual target hex
simple fix, just tweak it back up some.

[:)]

[Alby]

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

Please note that unit cost evaluation routine in programmer's options was designed for artillery at 100%. Increaing to 150% will make artillery very effective and very, very cheap. Same applies to cost of armor and infantry.

Bye...

Michael Wood

Hi Mike, I think the players main point is they want their artillery more effective than currently is in 8.403 and only way to do that is increase in preferences screen.
However you are correct, since cost will remain same as setting at 100% this will make it too cheap.
perhaps the artillery is priced correct, as is, for the effectiveness of it in 8.403..(lower price than 8.4 but not as effective)..which in some ways I like because I never like games that turn into artillery duels anyway. Will make players think perhaps about buying less artillery and using strategy and tactics as opposed to simply plotting all arty to target area behind V hexes...[:D]
Need to think on some more and see more players thoughts.
are most happy with cost and effectiveness in 8.403 or not?
this was my main question in starting this thread.
Thanks for reply Mike!
[:)]

[Riun T]

Just an apology for any inconvenience and getting GOBLIN's neck hair up, this whole thing should have been in the tec issues with SPWAW thread anyways, and I took it as a he said this MOD shoulda been this, and he said this OOB coulda been this and this update has to do this and these arrty results are because of this kinda conversation and made it sound to myself that THESE APPLES ARE DEFINATELY NOT THESE ORANGES and thought maybe u've become a little CHANGE DRUNK and tried to snap yas all out of it with a docterine of a combined force wake up call.... I'm just sayin we've all heard of the officer in charge, making 80% of his objective only to be left with a few exhausted ammo depleated damaged partially undermaned definately underfirepowered squads at that point to make the final push, just remember what arm of your remaining units in which service branch matters not, has the best chance of getting u the final 20%. RT

[m10bob]

However you are correct, since cost will remain same as setting at 100% this will make it too cheap.
perhaps the artillery is priced correct, as is, for the effectiveness of it in 8.403..(lower price than 8.4 but not as effective)..which in some ways I like because I never like games that turn into artillery duels anyway. Will make players think perhaps about buying less artillery and using strategy and tactics as opposed to simply plotting all arty to target area behind V hexes

I don't have a real problem with the pricing, but like I said, after playing SP as long as you guys, I have mine tweaked to 130% against soft, and at least 110% against hard targets.
Lot of time to experiment, and (to me), these worked out pretty good and left that room for some gamey S&T..
My view of the stuff is decidedly prejuidiced...Been at the wrong end of the beaten zone a few times.
Mortars, Arty, and rockets.
I would not do anything to prevent "combined arms opportunities", like "price-punishment" for arty users.
What are we missing for the American OOB's, IMHO??
The ability (on occasion) to have a good 'ol fashion TOT barrage for prepping a zone, by the purchase of a single "button", (representing a RCT or even divisions entire artillery for that one purchase, but at a discount(!) from what it would cost to buy each unit seperately.
This would not only be realistic, (even at this scale), but would represent the degree of efficiency the Americans had developed this tactic to.
We have gone out of our way to improve the OOB's so much over the years, and yet, have TOTally neglected one of the most important inherent functions of the American army of that war.
IMHO, if we are able to call in airstrikes, why not the more common (especially during inclement weather) TOT barrage, with the purchase of a single "unit".
Now THAT(!) would tie up the opposition for our advance for a bit.