OP-Fire Question

[grudge]

In the manual it is stated, that if you have a flak or artillery in a land area adjactet to a narrow (yellow arrow) and an enemy ship or plane is pasing by, the unit will do an OP-fire.

I (Germany) always got a artillery AND a flak unit in Gibraltar. But sometimes the enemy (Wallies) gets past it without a single shot from my units and sinks my freighters in the med.
What am I doing wrong?

[JanSorensen]

If they are using planes they can fly over Spanish Morocco to avoid your op-fire.

If its naval units I would need to see the concrete case to tell.

[grudge]

ORIGINAL: JanSorensen

If they are using planes they can fly over Spanish Morocco to avoid your op-fire.

Ah, thanx. I will try this with another flak in morocco.

If its naval units I would need to see the concrete case to tell.

It's the same in Denmark, where I have an arty there. The Wallies are just moving past it and attack my feightes in the Baltic Sea. What excactly do you need to know?

[JanSorensen]

You say you have an ART in Denmark. Is the WA using a HF, a LF or an aircraft to attack your baltic shipping?

If its an aircraft its ok (you will need a FTR to op-fire then) but if its a surface ship I am puzzled.

[grudge]

It just happened the following:

I got an flak in Spain (+2 tanks, 2 mil), Gibraltar (+1 tank, 1 mil) and Spanish Morocco (+1 mil). In the Wstern Med are 2 HF, 2 LF and 2 Freighter.
The Wallies passed Gibraltar with one HF and attacked my fleet in the Med without an OP-fire. (I destroyed the HF in the Med, but they damaged a German HF too)

[JanSorensen]

Thats because your FLAK does not op-fire. You want ART or aircraft in order to op-fire.

[grudge]

OK, thanx. So I misunderstood the manual...
If I put a ART in Gibraltar, it will OP-fire then? Or do I need another one in Morocco/Spain?

[JanSorensen]

If you put an ART in Gibraltar it will op-fire on naval units passing. Enemy aircraft could still avoid op-fire from Gibraltar by flying over Spanish Morocco. If you want to avoid that as well placing an AA in Spanish Morocco is probably the answer.

[MrQuiet]

And I once learned the hard way that Art in narrows does not op-fire on subs. I do not understand why the big guns could not destroy subs in shallow, highly patrolled narrows.

So in game-mechanics, Art should be given a anti-sub teck value of at least 2.

-MrQ

[Lebatron]

When I think of subs trying to pass through a narrows the movie Das Boot comes to mind. Did you see it? Great movie. The best submarine movie ever. Anyway, I just can't picture coastal guns from Gibraltar hitting a sub that is travelling underwater. Just because its a narrows doesn't mean the water is shallow. The real danger for the sub was the destroyers patrolling the narrows. In the movie the German sub dived to several hundred feet to escape the British destroyers. I won't tell you more because I don't want to spoil the movie for you[:)]

[MrQuiet]

Thanks Lebatron, I believe I stand corrected. I assumed, apparently incorrectly, that Narrows was shallow and well patroled.

-MrQuiet

[Lebatron]

Well your right about them being well patrolled. At Gibraltar the British did everything possible to make the narrows a death trap. There were air patrols, mine fields, and destroyers just waiting to make life hard for any German sub crew. When the sub Captain, in the movie Das Boot, received orders to try and run the strait he just about broke down in despair. It was that hard to do. In the game we have to put air at Gibraltar to op-fire at subs. Its a good compromise. If DD's could op-fire too, subs would be just about useless.

[SeaMonkey]

Well Jan, tell me why my fighters in the Canaries did not op-fire at your subs as they moved out into the Atlantic?

[MrQuiet]

@ SeaMonkey:

Aircraft on Islands do not opfire at subs.
You would have to fly the Aircraft on a CAP mission over the open water to get the opfire.

-MrQ

[SeaMonkey]

Well that explains it, thanks Mr.Q. Unfortunately that puts me in a world of hurt as now my tranny route around the cape is cut off and those darn Axis subs are at EV 3 and Torps 3. All my forces are only 1 ASW, even maximizing research on both CAGs and Lt.Fleets as of Fall 40. I'll get'em next time(4th turn).

[graf spee]

I recently made this summary for op-fire .
I'll post it here.
Please feel free to correct me where I am wrong.

1.Narrows : Artillery fires at naval surface vessels passing through the narrows.
Artillery does not fire at subs passing through the narrows.
Aircraft fires at naval surface vessels passing through the narrows.
Aircraft fires at subs passing through the narrows.
Aircraft fires at aircraft passing through the narrows.

2.Islands : Aircraft fires at naval surface vessels passing through the sea zone the island
is in.
Aircraft does not fire at subs passing through the sea zone the island is in.

3.CAP Aircraft fires at naval surface vessels,subs and aircraft that pass through the
sea zone the patroling aircraft is in.
Aircraft fires at subs leaving a sea zone where they just attacked-although
Joel stated this is not the intention.Don't know if this will be changed .

4.Naval surface vessels will op-fire at other naval surface vessels that are passing through
their region.

5. Naval surface vessels will never op-fire at subs.

6.CAG : Fires at naval surface vessels that move from one adjacent sea zone to
another adjacent sea zone .
Does not fire at subs that move from one adjacent sea zone to
another adjacent sea zone .

7. Artillery in a coastal region : Fires at unit(s) that are amph.invading.This op-fire is at
the transportfleet(s)that carry the unit(s)that is amph.
invading.Any damage to the transport(s)is applied to the
invading unit(s).
There are some mod.in play here,please check the
manual.

8.Aircraft in a coastal region : Fires at naval surface vessels that move from one
adjacent sea zone to another adjacent sea zone.
Does not fire at subs that move from one
adjacent sea zone to another adjacent sea zone.

[JanSorensen]

ORIGINAL: graf spee
1.Narrows : Artillery fires at naval surface vessels passing through the narrows.
Artillery does not fire at subs passing through the narrows.
Artillery fires at aircraft passing through the narrows.
Aircraft fires at naval surface vessels passing through the narrows.
Aircraft fires at subs passing through the narrows.
Aircraft fires at aircraft passing through the narrows.

I believe you missed the one I added in blue. You also lack the op-fire thats not related to naval affairs.

[G McVittie]

Das Boot.  Great movie.  I remember reading something about German submariners calling the Mediterranean "the moustrap".  Because it was easy to get in there, but hard to get back out.  Mediterranean water is saltier than the Atlantic - right?  So it's heavier - right?  (Correct me if I'm getting the physics wrong - otherwise, follow along).  So, the current at the surface is flowing INTO the Med (from the North Atlantic).  A German U-boat could shut off engines (run silent), submerge, and drift through the Strait of Gibraltar undetected.  Easy.
But getting back out - not so easy.  The current flowing OUT into the North Atlantic is too deep (below crush depth?)  So the only way you could get out was to run at full speed against the current.  Lots of noise.  British destroyers could detect these subs struggling against the current with hydrophones.  Fastest way out was to run at the surface (least water resistance against the current).  Noisy and visible (to artillery, aircraft, everything).  Dangerous.  Suicidal.

[Lebatron]

Ah I forgot that fact. Its been so long since I seen the movie. I was thinking the scene where they try and run the strait was going into the Med not out.