Missing Diplomatic Options

[malthaussen]

In my current test as Turkey, I'm involved in a pointless war against the alliance of Britain, Sweden, and Spain. It is a pointless war, because none of us have any realistic way of getting at each other. Though I have taken all of the provinces I can reach (about a half-dozen), and won so many battles against Swedish armies that I have a couple of hundred thousand prisoners, and even won a couple of naval actions, the morale of all four participants remains at c. 1000. There is no end in sight, and the stalemate has gone on for a couple of years now.

I've been trying various diplomatic options to end this stupid war, but short of outright surrender on my part, there is no way of doing so. In particular, missing are two options which historically featured in many peace treaties of the era: the Status Quo Ante Bellum, and the Peace in Place. There really should be some way to end wars without the necessary "surrender" of one party or another: Total War was really not an accepted form of diplomacy in the 18th century!

As a second issue, what is it exactly that determines the provinces that are up for grabs when a country surrenders? I took six Russian provinces in a recent war, but when making the ensuing treaty only two of them were available for cession, in addition to a whole bunch of provinces I did not take. This seems very strange.

And one last issue: I've won so many battles against the Swedes because they, like all the AI-controlled nations, freely move their armies through the provinces of other nations without raising a squeak of protest. I, of course, cannot do so without making a treaty, which none of my neighbors are willing to do (and I don't blame them). Don't the AI nations have any concept of sovereignty?

-- Mal

[Hard Sarge]

ahh lets see
provinces you can have ceded to you, only the border provinces can be ceded, so if you Capture one of the inner provinces, you are just out of luck in getting it, but any of the ones on the border, you can ask for (if you did capture it, it is cheaper to take as a prise)

moving though other lands ?, click on violate Terrartory, and you can enter (they just complain about it, maybe ask you to leave if a major power, which could force a war)

yea those long range wars can be a pain, to really hurt them , you need to be in there Cap Province

[TexHorns]

Right click on aprovince belonging to the major power or on the minor directly and click "violate nutreality".

Sarge is right, march on their capital and they will eventually surrender. It is expensive to maintain an army that long a distance. But it will work.

Playing as France starting in 1792 I have been at war with Britain for the entire game. I can't get to their capital to end the war. It doesn't have an effect on me other than mainland provinces of their's I've captured remain in limbo. You can try for a cease fire or do a limited surrender in which you will probably lose one province. I would like to see other diplomatic options for ending a war, because Britain is to difficult to end a war with.

[jimwinsor]

ORIGINAL: malthaussen

...

I've been trying various diplomatic options to end this stupid war, but short of outright surrender on my part, there is no way of doing so. In particular, missing are two options which historically featured in many peace treaties of the era: the Status Quo Ante Bellum, and the Peace in Place. There really should be some way to end wars without the necessary "surrender" of one party or another...
...

-- Mal

There IS! A Cease Fire. Rulebook pg. 65.

The reason you may have missed this is that you cannot do this via the complex treaty-writing screen. Its one of those quick and simple diplomatic manuevers (like Violate Neutrality) you get to be right-clicking a country on the map, and bringing up the little beige menu.

You have 1 or more diplomatic "moves" a turn. As Turkey in your situation, spam these faraway AI countries that are a hassle to march to with Cease Fires, up to your diplomacy limits. In my experience, the AI will see logic and accept one such Cease Fire after not too long. Its sorta random. You can even try two diplo attempts on the same power at the same time; the first may be rejected but the second accepted. Just keep naggin' 'em.

[malthaussen]

Does a cease fire actually end the war, or just provide a breathing space? I was aware of the option, but historically "cease fire" is only a pause, not a solution.

-- Mal

[jimwinsor]

Yes, Cease Fire does end the war, but with only a 3 month enforced peace for both sides.

After 3 months they can DOW..but they don't have to. So, it's basically a statis quo peace.

[silber]

ORIGINAL: jimwinsor

Yes, Cease Fire does end the war, but with only a 3 month enforced peace for both sides.

After 3 months they can DOW..but they don't have to. So, it's basically a statis quo peace.

In 1.218 I've never seen Cease Fire accepted, even by a country which was losing the war. If there was a possiblity of "sweetening the pot" by giving something up, maybe the AI would accept it.

I also noticed that if you, as part of terms of surrender, give something to the defeated country, it counts against the "peace points". Probably makes sense, since otherwise it could probably be exploited.

[1LTRambo]

First of all, I have requested a cease fire on many occasions with enemies that I did not want to be fighting at the time and have yet to receive a cease fire. Every time it was rejected. So don't count on automatically getting cease fires to end your wars.
Second, Kornish presented a great idea in a post sometime back that should be incorporated but I don't know where Eric stands on the issue. That issue is POW's. He believes and I agree that POW's should greatly effect NML and increase the possibility of insurrection at home of the nation that has lost their soldiers to another nation. For your example, Turkey's hold of 10's of thousands of Sweedish soldiers should cause Sweeden to surrender.

[Grand_Armee]

OK...on cease fires.

1. If you are in the bad-boy spot...aka top of the glory list, no nation will give you a cease fire.
2. Nations can be got into a cease fire if you aren't in the bad-boy spot and you're not besieging it's cities. If someone else is in the bad-boy spot this is better for you. But if all of Europe is worried about you, forget getting cease-fires.
3. Build a credible navy and get all three naval upgrades...then destroy the British navy. Land on Britain and lay seige to London. Britain will surrender quicktime.
4. If Britain is at war with another nation who isn't at war with you holding the bad-boy spot, Britain will surrender to that other nation just so that the other nation can DOW you.
5. Get out of the bad-boy spot by surrendering to someone...yes, this is a desperate move.
6. Get into TCP/IP play and have fewer nations that act like the AI.

[mogami]

Hi, There is no option to cease fire with USA and the USA declares war without warning. I blockaded St Petersburg with no USA ships east of Denmark and the next turn USA declared war. Where does the USA get all those frigates and ships in 1794[X(]
Sweden (me) has been fighting Russia for over a year offering cease fire every turn (Russia refuses) I have over 100k Russian POW and both of us are at the bottom of the point list. I don't really need the USA after my merchants right now.

[malthaussen]

I haven't had to fight the Yanks yet, fortunately. But even in 1815, they should have only a few frigates and nothing larger. Probably thrown in for extra game-chaos... er, "balance."

Or else the devs are really, really fond of the USS Constitution.

-- Mal

[jimwinsor]

Hi, There is no option to cease fire with USA and the USA declares war without warning. I blockaded St Petersburg with no USA ships east of Denmark and the next turn USA declared war. Where does the USA get all those frigates and ships in 1794

Actually there IS a way to get a Cease Fire with the US.

Go to the Country List (hit the 'p' key). Scroll down to the US. Right click on the name; that will bring up the beige pop up with the quickie diplomatic options; if you are at war with the US, Cease Fire will be one of those options.

This is how you can send Subsidies to the US as well; in theory you can make the US a protectorate this way, I suppose! [:)]

[Grand_Armee]

The US navy isn't so difficult to deal with if you have all three naval upgrades. Playing Britain, it didn't take long for me to rid the seas of the rebels....er the Americans.