CHS: Sally autoupgrade to Helen

[Helpless]

In CHS1.06 game (PDU=on) all my Sally factories did autoupgrade to Helen. This is not something which happens in stock game.

The sad thing that I have expanded quite a few Sally/Mitsubishi factories and now i'm producing hell a lot of Hellens/Nakajima. By that I have big shortage on Nakajima engines.

What was the reason to restrict Sally production in CHS?

[Helpless]

Is that only me stupid playing Japan in CHS? [;)]

[m10bob]

I am very confident the CHS team did research on actual production figures, but its' not known (by the outsiders) if the team was compelled in anyway to even use this as a consideration, due to possible "game balance" suggestions/complaints,etc.
If production figures are wanted by anybody,I have a couple of good printed sources here..
Just let me know, on the forum, or by PM......Bob

[treespider]

Helens/ Month:


Starting September 1941:5,8,7,9
1942 - 10,9,10,14,12,15,13,9,14,17,27,24
1943 - 24,26,30,30,31,30,29,31,32,30,30,21
1944 - 22,19,22,20,20,16,20,13,17,14,9,9
Production Halted

Source: United States Strategic Bombing Survey, Serial # 17, Nakajima Aircraft Company Ltd., Appendix M, pp.40-43

Sally's/Month

1941 - 10,11,19,18,27,25,26,30,27,27,19,35
1942 - 31,28,31,23,24,27,27,25,28,29,32,36
1943 - 38,35,37,37,33,34,35,38,38,22,33,36
1944 - 31,25,33,32,35,34,33,20,3 Production halted

Source: United States Strategic Bombing Survey, Serial # 16, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd., Appendix G, pp.61-64

[el cid again]

In my proposed changes for CHS - and they will appear in RHS regardless of wether or not CHS adopts them -

Sally and Helen use different engines - because they really did.
I had to simplify the system because only 10 engine slots exist which
will report properly in all reporting places. Worse - the manufacturer's name is hard coded into some reports. But I classified engines by size - and these planes use different size engines. You need to decide how many of each plane (and engine) you want to make? I do not force Sally to upgrade to Helen - because it did not - but to Peggy. By that time it will be obsolete for sure. You may manually convert, but that will take the line down. FYI>

[Helpless]

I'm not discussing production numbers. The question is about forced autoupgrade in CHS 1.06.... This doesn't leave any chance to choose between Sally or Helen - Mitsu or Nakajima..

[aletoledo]

I saw the same thing in my CHS game, but I prefered the Helen. I was trying to see if I could convert a few extra lilly's to sallys before I acquired enough helens, but I found the same autoupgrade for the factories I converted to sallies.

[Lemurs!]

Part of the problem is that the factory auto upgrade system should not be in the game.

I can get rid of the auto upgrade, and then just manually enter for every Ki21 squadron the option for upgrading to Ki49s.

Mike

[el cid again]

I'm not discussing production numbers. The question is about forced autoupgrade in CHS 1.06.... This doesn't leave any chance to choose between Sally or Helen - Mitsu or Nakajima

Go into the data editor. Load the scenario file you are using.
Go to the aircraft section. Go down to the Sally Ki-21.
For scenario 155 this is line 64. Go to the upgrade field.
Set it to Ki-21 - or to whatever you want - say Ki-67.

SAVE the file.

Then start the game.

[el cid again]

Part of the problem is that the factory auto upgrade system should not be in the game.

This is both right and wrong. Some planes were upgraded in a way well represented by it. Sometimes two versions were built on the same line for months on end. But it is wrong to have radically different planes upgrade with no decline in production. On balance, I agree with Mike - you should upgrade everything manually and force the line down to zero - unless you know for sure this is a proper upgrade (e.g. Ki-61 I to II).
Since that is more than most people know, it would be better to have not done it at all - or to have done it in hard code for the correct cases.

[Helpless]

OK, understand. But IMHO this would be good to have it in oficial CHS [:)]

[treespider]

What the game will not be able to do in its current configuration is simulate the crossover period between designs. As an example starting in April 1944, when the Peggy came online at Mitsubishi Airframe Plant #5 located in the southern outskirts of Nagoya, here are the monthly production figures:


Ki-21 Sally- 32, 35, 34, 33, 20, 3
Ki-67 Peggy-11, 12, 22, 21, 32, 43, 34, 59, 17, 20 38, 28,15,46,54,22

EDIT: For clarity both sets of numbers start in April 1944

[el cid again]

What the game will not be able to do in its current configuration is simulate the crossover period between designs.

This is not always the case. I know of a bomber case and a transport case where production was not affected at all. Two different (but related) transports were in the line for more than a few months - until finally they decided to stop the former (LO and a Ki variation on it). And several navy bombers were produced in different variations as needed for long periods. This is also US practice - we can do this even today - and do.

It really depends on how much is different - and that is a case by case sort of thing.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: el cid again

What the game will not be able to do in its current configuration is simulate the crossover period between designs.

This is not always the case. I know of a bomber case and a transport case where production was not affected at all. Two different (but related) transports were in the line for more than a few months - until finally they decided to stop the former (LO and a Ki variation on it). And several navy bombers were produced in different variations as needed for long periods. This is also US practice - we can do this even today - and do.

It really depends on how much is different - and that is a case by case sort of thing.

Which is what I said.[&:] IIRC the game will not allow a factory to produce different verisons of the same or similar aircraft at the same factory. IE you have to upgrade an older model to a newer model to start production of the newer model which thereby ceases production of the older model.

EDIT: In my above post on Sally's and Peggy's both sets of numbers start in April 1944, The aircraft were produce at the same plant at the same time which IIRC the game will not allow you to do.

[el cid again]

EDIT: In my above post on Sally's and Peggy's both sets of numbers start in April 1944, The aircraft were produce at the same plant at the same time which IIRC the game will not allow you to do.

As it has been set for the new CHS and for RHS, you will have no trouble of this sort. The Sally plant will make the Sally and the Peggy plant will make the Peggy at the same time (AFTER the Peggy starts being made - which is not right away - because I set availability for the date of operations - and it is a long time after the war begins Peggy becomes operational). But BOTH will autoupgrade to the Ki-67. Because historically both were produced in parallel.

You can change this for yourself. IF you set the Ki-21 to upgrade to the Ki-21 - it won't change unless you do it manually. IF you set it to Ki-67 or some other plane, it will wait for that plane.