I've been playing Maximum Football...

[JosephL]

So I have heard a few people ask if Maximum Football is ever going to be finished. It is, and darned soon.

In order to write competantly about it for press stuff I was forced by the Matrix staff to throw down and show 'em who's boss when it comes to a pigskin.

So, I thought I would post my own personal thoughts on the game here in the forum for all to see:

Maximum Football definately lived up to my expectation in terms of "number of options." That is, we've been saying it for ages that Maximum Football gives a lot of flexibility to rules and player stats and so on- but till now *I* was unclear on what that really meant.

What it means is... good lord you can play with the options and things like drafting players for a longer time than you could spend playing the game- especially if the first thing you do is create a new season from scratch (through drafting). While you can turn this stuff to auto, I stuck it out and drafted the 40 odd rounds of players, set my training, trained them, and then cut the crap players off my roster.

The end result was the Washington Capitols were a lean, mean, fighting machine... at least as far as I could tell.

I made some choices with this team, I took speed as my primary attribute in nearly all my offensive players. I didn't want my QB standing in the pocket waiting for a blitz to break his leg... I wanted his leg broken 20 yards down field by a defensive back.

My defensive method was pretty much smash the enemy to the ground, focusing on strength.

And then I decided to take a look at the play editor- mind you I have been enjoying the game for several hours now tinkering with my team... and I haven't even played a game yet! After looking over the play editor, which is very likely the most robust play editor I have seen in ages, I decided I didn't know what I was doing; and wouldn't until I played with the default plays some.

So, lets test out the Washington Capitols against their first opponent- Who I don't even recall now that I am writing this.

I set it to coaching mode, as that is the main thrust of the game, and we were underway with fair weather and a good temp for a solid game.

The game was surprising, while the animation isn't going to knock anyone's socks off, the player models and artwork were way more detailed than I was expecting. I started playing around with some plays and discovered something rather important. While my QB (with a speed of 80/100) could run like a madman from danger, he couldn't pass to save his life. After 0/7 on passing in the first quarter I decided to play the ground game, passing only as a diversion in hopes of figuring out what was going wrong.

In the first quarter we were up 3 - 0, having spent a lot of my time punting due to missed throws. With my change in strategy I turned the second quarter into a 20-0 blowout.

And then trouble started... an injury took out my primary RB for the game (thankfully not any longer than that) and my offensive machine slowed down. By the end of the third Q it was 23-7, not exactly danger zone but my hopes of a shutout and a Buffalo Bill's style defeat was not going to happen. The game ended with a score of 30-10, Washington on top with over 350 yards rushing and less than 100 passing- the majority of the yardage coming in the second Q.

So was I a good coach? Did I simply have a better team, or more likely, a worse opponent? Did my opponent slip into my locker room and coat my wide reciever's fingers in butter when they weren't looking?

I decided to set Washinton to auto for their next game and see how the computer would handle them. To my shock, while Washington still won by a good margin (27-13) the stats were much different from my coaching! 407 yards passing and 125 rushing.

I think a lot of it came down to my not understanding what pass play to call in which situation, and what pass plays my fast but not so strong (pass strength) QB could accomplish.

At anyrate, I called it a day having spent far too long sitting in front of my PC. All I can say is: This game will distract you for long periods of time, not just in playing the game but in designing a winning strategy and team that will truly rock the boat.

Be on the lookout for our announcement concerning Maximum Football, coming soon

-Joe

[diesel7013]

Thanks for the input, but shouldn't you be in DC taking care of business there???

[KWhit]

Were you playing these games with any options enabled that are atypical or non-standard?

I ask because I am concerned that in the first 2 games you ever played you had results that should be very statistically rare.

Game 1: 350 yards rushing
Game 2: 407 yards passing

I would expect a team to have a game like one of these once a decade - if that! But you had them back-to-back in the very first games you ever played. Unless you had some options enabled that led to atypical offensive results, I have to wonder about the sim engine.

[DandricSturm]

Sounds like a team that should throw a lot of swing passes and look for yards after the catch.

[Marauders]

ORIGINAL: KWhit

Were you playing these games with any options enabled that are atypical or non-standard?

I ask because I am concerned that in the first 2 games you ever played you had results that should be very statistically rare.

Game 1: 350 yards rushing
Game 2: 407 yards passing

I would expect a team to have a game like one of these once a decade - if that! But you had them back-to-back in the very first games you ever played. Unless you had some options enabled that led to atypical offensive results, I have to wonder about the sim engine.

I agree. [X(] This should have been brought under control in beta.

Maybe the VPNFL guys better take a look at it.

[JosephL]

Well in in the standings there were a few teams that were moving the ball a great deal, though I was the only one in the 400 range. There were a couple teams in the 300s and most in the 100-200s.

I can't really account for that fluke. I certainly can't pass 400 yards so far with this team... I can't even break 100

-Joe

[Hanal]

I would be interested to see how games play out without any editing or tinkering to see how the stats are in default mode....or better yet, if it is possible to port over the ratings of a couple of NFL teams players and see the stats of those games....

[Tullius]

I agree. This should have been brought under control in beta.

There are many factors. But playbooks (esp. defense) are very important. Wait for Old Coach plays ...

[Marauders]

ORIGINAL: Tullius

I agree. This should have been brought under control in beta.

There are many factors. But playbooks (esp. defense) are very important. Wait for Old Coach plays ...

The many factors should not make that much of a difference unless the AI cannot handle it. 300 yards on the ground should not happen. Getting stuffed for 75 yards on the ground, or having a player break out for 150 yards is a big difference in a game. Having a team rush for 300 yards out of the box is not a good sign unless the game is set up for a contest prior to the age of the forward pass.

No one running back has ever rushed for 300 yards in either the NFL or CFL, and only 3 NFL players have rushed for 275 or more. Only 3 CFL players have rushed for over 249 yards.

I brought this up over a year ago in the old forum when Ed Early was running the Superbowl. Records were being smashed left and right. If Maximum Football cannot do a better job than Madden at getting reasonable statistics that are close to CFL or NFL standards, then why make the switch?

Please understand, the AI is very important; the stats are very important. This should not be taken lightly, as it may make or break the game come review time.

[Hanal]

I think everyone will agree that when you develop a sports sim, whether it be football, baseball or whatever, having realistic stats is a primary force in the game...now I'm willing to presume that this brief 2 game summary is not an accurate reflection of the game and hope that more detailed AAR's will come forth to correct our initial judgements.....[:)]

[Tullius]

@ Marauders

It is a little bit difficult as i am still unter NDA. But believe me i had no such stats at the end of the beta test. They were all reasonable.

[watchtower]

Will there be a 'Total tit' tutorial?

Hailing from England the rules of American soccer[:D] are a tad confusing. ( unlike god's own game of cricket)

[Marauders]

ORIGINAL: Tullius

@ Marauders

It is a little bit difficult as i am still unter NDA. But believe me i had no such stats at the end of the beta test. They were all reasonable.

That's cool, Tullius. We go way back to the old boards, so I'll trust you on this. It is too bad I didn't get to do beta with you.

By the way, the old boards have gone up in smoke. They are now in the bit bucket.

[JosephL]

I tackled the play editor today. Get it? Tackled? HAHA... ok, enough

Anyway, I tried to do it without looking at the manual.

The objective was simple, a sweep play with the snap to the halfback, using the fullback and Wide Reciever as a leading blocker and the SB and QB as early blockers.

It looks good on paper... One of those surprise plays you need to pull out once a game to really shake the boat and make someone famous.

Unfortunately I really need to read the manual The result wasn't so bad, it snapped it to the QB and the QB kept it and everyone else did what they were supposed to.

I'm not sure why but the QB ran the proper route (a blocking route).

I tested it against a zone prevent defense and managed to pick up about 3-5 yards per carry. Obviously because it is a shotgun formation it runs the risk of a large loss in yardage, but given that my QB (I ran it with Washington as my test) is as fast as a fullback (almost) and the large forice of blockers I think it would take a minimum of a two man blitz on that side to get through there. The defense down field is pretty light, it really ends up relying on the QB to break at least one tackle- that isn't gonna happen.

I'm going to sit down with the play editor manual later and try to hammer out why I can't snap it to my halfback...

Here's a screenshot of my poor attempt!
-Joe

[frunky]

Even Madden has it's crazy stats

As long as the ratings do what they are supposed to do
then someone can come up with some good balanced rosters

I think fbpro was the best at that

but I still remember the speedy Defensive ends that would have too many blocked punts

[David Winter]

ORIGINAL: JosephL

I tackled the play editor today. Get it? Tackled? HAHA... ok, enough

Anyway, I tried to do it without looking at the manual.

The objective was simple, a sweep play with the snap to the halfback, using the fullback and Wide Reciever as a leading blocker and the SB and QB as early blockers.

It looks good on paper... One of those surprise plays you need to pull out once a game to really shake the boat and make someone famous.

Unfortunately I really need to read the manual The result wasn't so bad, it snapped it to the QB and the QB kept it and everyone else did what they were supposed to.

I'm not sure why but the QB ran the proper route (a blocking route).

I tested it against a zone prevent defense and managed to pick up about 3-5 yards per carry. Obviously because it is a shotgun formation it runs the risk of a large loss in yardage, but given that my QB (I ran it with Washington as my test) is as fast as a fullback (almost) and the large forice of blockers I think it would take a minimum of a two man blitz on that side to get through there. The defense down field is pretty light, it really ends up relying on the QB to break at least one tackle- that isn't gonna happen.

I'm going to sit down with the play editor manual later and try to hammer out why I can't snap it to my halfback...

Here's a screenshot of my poor attempt!
-Joe
{image snipped]

Joe.

A big problem I see with your play design is that you have a lot of logic past the line of scrimage. One the ball carrier has passed the LOS the play design logic gives way to the evade / pursuit logic. Once the ball is passed the LOS command points are no longer processed.

The manual gives a brief tutorial on play design.

David

[JosephL]

Hey with the help of the manual I fixed my plan up proper like.

I ran it on practice mode under a variety of scenarios. In the worst case, a strong side blitz results in a loss of 5 yards every time.

In the best case if the blitz comes from the weak side and they are playing large zones I managed to snag 20-30 yards.

Most of the time it resulted in between 5 and 10 yards... a fair play to toss into the mix when your opponent is expecting a pass play from shotgun... at least I think so

I'll put it in my playbook and see if it works in a real game.

I'd post a screenshot but it doesn't look cool anymore, now that I know what I am doing.

-Joe

[Marauders]

ORIGINAL: frunky

Even Madden has it's crazy stats

Even Madden? Like Madden was ever close.

As long as the ratings do what they are supposed to do
then someone can come up with some good balanced rosters

I think fbpro was the best at that

VPNFL rosters for FBPro did a pretty good job. Pro Football Simulation for the Amiga was the best at realsitic stats.

but I still remember the speedy Defensive ends that would have too many blocked punts

The offensive linemen were always slow or just got mixed up. Unless a person wants to create an example of the Houston Texans offensive line, that just won't do.

I had asked David on the old boards if lineman can pull and trap, and he said they should be able to do that by assigning them logic. I hope that is is case.

[David Winter]

I had asked David on the old boards if lineman can pull and trap, and he said they should be able to do that by assigning them logic. I hope that is is case.

Yes, you can build routes for linemen just as if you were building them for a receiver or running back. A pulling guard would simply be done using regular movement commands and assigning lead blocking commands.