Multiple Levels of Minors Might Get Cut from PS 2006

[dnelms]

Shaun... I'd much rather have more in-game options than to have to keep up with multiple minor leagues. I just think the gain is not worth the price (in terms of time and end result increasing game enjoyment). I will however agree with BeachBoy that it does make a difference for fantasy players, but I just created a player a watched him go thru the years.

[waltwa]

i may be a little confused on this issue. are we talking about a system that allows us to fill the minors with about 75 computer generated players- if so i don't think it is very important. but if we are talking about a game that allows us to have say the best 60 or so of the best players of the sf giants and a system that allows about 10 or so fictional players generated by the A1 each year i think it is important. i am talking about a system that allows around 60 players at 4 levels - ml, aaa, aa and a level but is loaded by rosters that game players produce and we can import into the game. what i am talking about is a system that is basically what ootp has or at least what the ootp game allows. i think the weakness of the present game is that minor league trading is not of much importance in the game.

[donkuchi19]

I really was looking forward to multiple levels in the minors. It is almost a game breaker for me. I really enjoy the current version. But I also was looking forward to managing an entire organization, rather than just the top two levels.

[waltwa]

another factor to consider.

there are 2 types of text based baseball sims. there is the career based game like pure sim, ootp and mogul. there is the diamond mind and som type games that are season replays. pure sim has to decide which game it will be. if it is going to be a gm game then it has to provide all the things that gm's do and that includes a 3 level minor league system that involves trading and development at all levels. while the game has a great deal of promise and, of course, improvements have to be made in all areas, it needs to have a 3 tiered minor league system.

by the way i generally play online ootp and some solo ootp play. i never fill up the minors with computer generated players but when i use roster sets provided by game players i really enjoy that the actual prospects of a real team are included. that is what really allows teams to become active in the trading market and that is a necessary ingredient of a gm game.

[puresimmer]

Right now in PureSim 2005 with fictional players (or if you seed with real) you can have 60 players with 35 in the minors. Would making the 60-man roster size available when using real players and real rosters be an improvement from your perspective?

[KG Erwin]

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

Right now in PureSim 2005 with fictional players (or if you seed with real) you can have 60 players with 35 in the minors. Would making the 60-man roster size available when using real players and real rosters be an improvement from your perspective?

Shaun, I suppose it depends on how far you want to go in the "wayback machine". For the 1940s, I see some teams that only used a total of 30-35 players for a given season. So, how do you get 60 players for the real-roster 1947 Dodgers? Would we want teams to be populated with 25 "Moonlight" Grahams? [:D]

[waltwa]

ultimately the fact is that puresim has to compete with ootp and mogul. both either have pretty good minor systems or at least are improving them. if you don't provide a realistic gm experience this game will suffer. i think puresim is the best in game experience of the 3 but is behind in the gm area. the problem with this is that som and diamond mind are better in-game sims so it seems that the gm area is where games like puresim have to excel.

[Tullius]

I agree with waltwa. It makes fun to develope players and this part of the overall experience. To have only one minor league is not ideal as Rookies play not on the same level as Veterans. If we need 4 or 5 subleagues is an other question. IMO it would be a good start to add one system for Rookies and "hopefull" players. The old High Heat system (3 levels) was also not bad. You draft every season 25 players and have to release 25 minor leaguers.

Right now in PureSim 2005 with fictional players (or if you seed with real) you can have 60 players with 35 in the minors.

Ok, but how many of these 35 minor leaguer will really play and gain experience ?

[puresimmer]

ultimately the fact is that puresim has to compete with ootp and mogul. both either have pretty good minor systems or at least are improving them. if you don't provide a realistic gm experience this game will suffer. i think puresim is the best in game experience of the 3 but is behind in the gm area. the problem with this is that som and diamond mind are better in-game sims so it seems that the gm area is where games like puresim have to excel.

Do you feel strat and som are better in-game because of more manager options? I want to make PureSim the best of both (GM and in-game) I don't see why I have to go one direction or the other, (besides time and resources of course). I would think that if I expanded the managerial options and added PBP I would be right there with the in-game experience of som and dm.

I'm still mulling all this over, unfortunately its already Feb!

[Beach23BoyP]

Shaun -- these are my humble suggestions:

PS 2006
1) Add the "Baseball Reference type almanac.
2) Improve the AI and the in-game managerial options.
3) Allow us to "play-out" both our major and AAA games.
4) Allow for easier skinnning. Make it real easy for people to throw-in their own digital baseball photos and mp3 files.

PS 2006 Update in late season (Sept 2006 or so)
1) Increase the "play by play' by leaps and bounds. Allow users to help build the play by play html files (your compadre is doing just that).
2) Increase the PSPN stories using the exact same above method.

A "team of users" could help you get started on this feature in early summer.

PS 2007
1) Implement three-levels of minors.
2) Head to Head over the Internet play.

You can then retire.

[dneely]

Shaun:

Right now PureSim cannot compete with DMB, Strat or PC Action in terms of in-game play and in-game managerial decisions and the "feel" of managing your team. Plus all 3 offer the opportunity to play vs an opponent live on the net. This is still IMHO a huge feature these games have over PureSim.

I love PureSim and IF the managerial options, decisions and PBP are vastly improved then PureSim CAN BE the ultimate baseball sim. None of those games offer any kind of fictional leagues or career play and they lack ANY in-game GM type decisons etc.

Hope this helps you...

DNeely

[Amaroq]

Would making the 60-man roster size available when using real players and real rosters be an improvement from your perspective?

I don't see any real reason to keep it out - I frequently set up a 50- or 55-man roster-limit league for 1901 with 16 teams and 'seeded', giving myself basically that, only without the ability to place the real players on the real rosters automagically for the initial setup.

The first season, there are not even enough 'real' players to give me a 25-man roster, and the entire minor league system is filled with 'scrubs'.

By the third season, all major-leaguers are 'real' and most minor-leaguers are, and by the fourth it feels like almost-all of the minor-leaguers are as well; some scrubs may linger at the bottom of a few teams' minor-league system for a couple years after that.

[cdvalenta]

I am new here and just bought the game only a few days ago. I'm already hooked. I absolutely love this game! This a great product. I love the fact that I can set up my own fictional leagues OR run historical replays. Anyways I'll be brief, so for what its worth here is my 2 cents... I'm in complete agreement with KG here.

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Quick answer: "Anything that endangers the game's stability and adds unneccessary complexity should be immediately shot."

Personally, I'd prefer more in-game options and improved AI over increased roster sizes.

[Beach23BoyP]

Again the "plain facts" are:

1) If you prefer using "real players" than multiple levels of minors "are not needed".
2) However, if you prefer "fantasy players" then multiple levels of minors "are needed".

It is that simple. The exciting thing about fantasy players is to draft them straight out of college or high school (btw, VERY FEW HIGH SCHOOLERS OR COLLEGE BOYS GO STRAIGHT TO "AAA"!!!) and follow their development thru their minor league careers.

This will be a "game breaker" for many (if not most) OOTPers, but it doesn't appear to be that important to most PSers. However, in order to attract players from the Big Boy OOTP -- PureSim will have to have muliplte levels of minors someday. It is that simple, and I know that to be the truth. I've been in both communities for years!

BTW, Shaun's new almanac feature will keep me playing PS over OOTP, even without multiple minors. It is that good and I prefer PS's interface (and my Sienna Skin!) anyway.

[ravinhood]

I'd rather see the AI better at trading and not getting ripped off by the human player myself than minor league improvements.

[jimair1]

Lose the extra minors!!!!!

It doesn't add a whole lot. I too prefer more in game options. Such as suicide squeeze, safety squeeze and pitch outs.

And is it just me or does it seem like base stealing is too easy? I'm only 7 games into the 2003 season and have yet to see a runner thrown out on either side.

Jim

[akcranker]

yes stealing is way too easy. I'm on July 18th in a 1998 Replay of the St. Louis Cardinals and Edgar Renteria already has 122 Stolen Bases with Johnny Damon having 90. Next closes AI player is Ray Durham with 60.

[Beach23BoyP]

ORIGINAL: akcranker

yes stealing is way too easy. I'm on July 18th in a 1998 Replay of the St. Louis Cardinals and Edgar Renteria already has 122 Stolen Bases with Johnny Damon having 90. Next closes AI player is Ray Durham with 60.

All you have to do is "tweak the XML". You can make PureSim do exactly what you want it to d0:

:<!-- Higher means better ability to safely steal, also increases the number of steal attempts -->
:<STEAL_SPEED_MULTIPLIER Value="151"/>
:<!-- Higher means better thows on steal attemps -->
:<CATCHER_ARM_MULTIPLIER Value="104.35"/>

Try decreasing the Steal_speed_Mulitplier value to 135 and increase the catcher's arm rating to 115 or so. I've always found a "perfect setting" for any of my leagues. Just takes a bit of tweaking.

BTW, that is the beauty of the PureSim and it's "XML engine file" -- you can make do about anything! I have one small complaint or two (too many flyballs and another one) but there might be the perfect setting for those too.

You just need to learn how to tweak the XML file. It extremely easy to edit. Before I start a "historical player / fantasy teams" league I run several test to get the "engine settings" exactly the way I want it before I start my league. Then I re-examine the XML about every three years to make sure that the league is evolving the way I want it too. That keeps the stats in perfect harmony and it seems to me, at least, to be 1/2 the fun of playing PS!

What other sim of any genre gives the user this kind of POWER!

[PadresFan104]

One mans power is another mans hassle.... [;)]

I've been a PureSim player for years, but have never liked the XML argument. The game should allow for this tweaking in the UI, especially now that the game is being marketed to a wider audience.

This gets back to my request to clean up the look of the game as a whole. The 2005 version of the game is still using a mix of windows from all previous versions of the game. I would look a consistent look and feel throughout. Yes, even more than multiple levels of minors...

Al

[Beach23BoyP]

ORIGINAL: PadresFan104

One mans power is another mans hassle.... [;)]

I've been a PureSim player for years, but have never liked the XML argument. The game should allow for this tweaking in the UI, especially now that the game is being marketed to a wider audience.

This gets back to my request to clean up the look of the game as a whole. The 2005 version of the game is still using a mix of windows from all previous versions of the game. I would look a consistent look and feel throughout. Yes, even more than multiple levels of minors...

Al

You can look at it both ways. Yes, it would easier if Shaun added a very more "custom engine tweaks" via sliders (errors, base stealing, pitcher hook, etc), but at the same time I would hate to lose the power of the XML file.

Right clicking on the XML file and editing with notepad or wordpad is extremely easy. And you can't screw up as long as you backup the original XML file.

After all, how many programs give you anywhere near the custom tune ability and power that Shaun has given us. Most programs frustrate me (like OOTP) because I can't make them look and do what I'd like 'em to do. I have to accept them the way they are.

Beside adding a few pics and songs (Sienna skin) -- one could easily change the entire look of PS if one wanted too. I, myself, have thought about countless other changes to the PS interface, but now it's too late. Maybe 2006.

You can't believe how long it took me to redo all the "buttons" in PureSim!