ORIGINAL: hawker
I never said that these guns are best ever[;)].
Like Pauk says earlier:
1.Whole Brittish fleet hunt that piece of scrap
2.Hood was destroyer not BC
3.Torpedo from sub hit Bismarck but not exploded,still penetrated poor ship armor and exit at other side
You sir, have succeded in confusing me with this answer. I was specifically discussing the Bismark's guns and you come back with torpedos and the Hood...Perhaps the Bismark fired torpedos from her main guns? [:D]
Yamato, IMO the best looking Battleship.
"Hey, a packet of googly eyes! I'm so taking these." Hank Venture
You sir, have succeded in confusing me with this answer. I was specifically discussing the Bismark's guns and you come back with torpedos and the Hood...Perhaps the Bismark fired torpedos from her main guns?
Elevation 800 kg (1.764 lb) AP Shell Striking Velocity Angle of Fall
Range at 2.2° 5.000 m (5.470 yards) 727 mps 2.385 fps 2.4°
Range at 4.9° 10.000 m (10.940 yards) 641 mps 2.103 fps 5.8°
Range at 8.1° 15.000 m (16.400 yards) 568 mps 1.864 fps 10.4°
Range at 12.1° 20.000 m (21.870 yards) 511 mps 1.677 fps 16.4°
Range at 16.8° 25.000 m (27.340 yards) 473 mps 1.552 fps 23.8°
Range at 22.4° 30.000 m (32.810 yards) 457 mps 1.499 fps 31.9°
Range at 29.1° 35.000 m (38.280 yards) 462 mps 1.516 fps 40.3°
Range at 30° (max elevation of turret) 36.520 m (39.589 yards) N/A N/A Armor Penetration (800 kg (1,765 lb) AP Shell)
Range Side Armor Deck Armor
0 m (0 yards) 742 mm (29,23")
4,572 m (5,000 yards) 616 mm (24,26") 19.3 mm (0,76")
18,000 m (19,685 yards) 419 mm (16,50") 75 mm (2,96")
22,000 m (24,060 yards) 393 mm (15,49") 104 mm (4,15")
27,000 m (29,528 yards) 304 mm (11,98") 126 mm (5,02")
Note: Based upon the USN Empirical Formula for Armor Penetration and a muzzle velocity of 820 meter per second (2:690 feets per second)
I assume the armor penetration figures are of an armor plate that has a specific angle to it. Perhaps 0 degrees (perpendicular to the striking shell) in this case.
Also, I can only assume the US used class B armor for this test. I think class A was limited in use...I'd have to look again.
Yamato, IMO the best looking Battleship.
"Hey, a packet of googly eyes! I'm so taking these." Hank Venture
Range Side Armor Deck Armor
10,000 m (10,936 yards) 510 mm (20,08")
20,000 m (21,872 yards) 364 mm (14,33")
21,000 m (22,966 yards) 350 mm (13,78")
25,000 m (27,340 yards) 308 mm (12,13")
30,000 m (32,808 yards) about 120 mm (4,70")
35,000 m (38,276 yards) about 170 mm (6,69")
Note: Based upon German face-hardened (vertical) and homogenous (deck) armor penetration curves and a muzzle velocity of 820 meter per second (2.690 feets per second)
Only problem with these figures is that almost every ship's armor belt was at an angle in WWII. With exception to the Bismark's and UK's King George V class. So penetration figures on any vessel with such a belt would be greater than expected results.
Interesting though.
Yamato, IMO the best looking Battleship.
"Hey, a packet of googly eyes! I'm so taking these." Hank Venture
Type Cartridge - Bag
Projectile Types and Weights Ship Projectiles:
APC L/4,4 - 800 kg (1.764 lbs.)
HE L/4,5 base fuze - 800 kg (1.764 lbs.)
HE L/4,6 nose fuze - (800 kg (1.764 lbs.)
Special Coastal Artillery Projectiles:
Siegfried HE L/4,5 - 495 kg (1.091 lbs.)
HE L/4,4 base and nose fuze - 510 kg (1.124 lbs.)
Actual Projectile designations were as follows:
APC L/4,4 - Psgr. L/4,4 (mhb)
HE L/4,5 base fuze - Spr.gr. L/4,5 Bdz (mhb)
HE L/4,6 nose fuze - Spr.gr. L/4,6 Kz (mhb)
Siegfried HE L/4,5 - Si.gr. L/4,5 Bdz u. Kz (mhb)
CA SAP L/4,4 - Spr.gr. L/4,4 Bdz u. Kz (mhb)
Bursting Charge APC L/4,4 - 18,8 kg (41,4 lbs.)
HE L/4,5 base fuze - 32,6 kg (71,9 lbs.)
HE L/4,6 nose fuze - 64,2 kg (141,5 lbs.)
Others: N/A
Projectile Length APC L/4,4 - 1672 mm (65,8 in)
HE L/4,5 base fuze - 1710 mm (67,3 in)
HE L/4,6 nose fuze - 1748 mm (68,8 in)
Siegfried HE L/4,5 - 1710 mm (67,3 in)
HE L/4,4 base and nose fuze - 1672 mm (65,8 in)
Propellant Charge Fore: 99,5 kg (219,4 lbs.) RPC/38 (17/7)
Main: 112,5 kg (248,0 lbs.) RPC/38 (17/7)
Brass case for main charge: 70 kg (154 lbs.)
The guns used a "fore charge" which was propellant in a silk bag, and a "main charge" which was propellant in a brass case. The brass case helped to seal the breech of the gun.
Fore and Main charges were rammed together.
Muzzle Velocity For naval shells: 800 kg (1.764 lb) shell: 820 meter per second (2.690 feets per second)
For coastal artillery shells: 1.050 meter per second 3.445 feets per second)
Maximum pressure 3.200 kg/cm² (20,3 tons/in²)
Approximate Barrel Life 250 - 300 rounds (use of the lighter coastal artillery projectiles increased the life of the barrel)
Ammunition Inventory 840 - 960 rounds in total
108 rounds per gun (designed)
Battleships must be able to withstand repeated hits and continue fighting, so their armour expanse, distribution, and thickness are extremely important. In terms of expanse, the Bismarck devoted 18,700 mt to belt, deck, turret, underwater, and splinter armour, which amounted to 40% of its designed combat weight (46,980 mt). Only the 69,100 mt Japanese battleships of the Yamato class carried more armour (22,895 mt), ablet at a much smaller percentage (33.2%) of the ship's total weight.
Materials used.
The steels used to build the Bismarck were the end result of extensive research and development that began shortly after WWI ended. This led to the creation of armour and construction steel that was clearly superior to WWI products. In terms of specifics, the following criteria apply:
· St 52. Construction grade steel with a tensile strength of 52-64 kg/mm�, a strain of 21% and a yield point of 36-38 kg/mm�.
· KC n/A (Krupp cementite, new type). Face-hardened armour steel. This material contained 3.5-3.8% nickel, 2% chrome, 0.3% carbon, 0.3% manganese, and 0.2% molybdenum, and it was used for the side belt, turrets, barbettes, and conning towers. The 670 Brinell face-layer tapered in hardness as it extended into 40-50% of the plate's total thickness. Post WWII proving ground test indicated that KC was only slightly less resistant than British cemented armour (CA), and markedly superior to US Class A plates.
· Wh (Wotan hart). Homogeneous armour steel with a tensile strength of 85-95 kg/mm�, a strain of 20% and a yield point of 50-55 kg/mm�. This material was used for the armoured decks, and, in the thickness employed aboard the Bismarck, was the equal of most foreign homogeneous plates.
· Ww (Wotan weich). Homogeneous armour steel with a tensile strength of 65-75 kg/mm�, a strain of 25% and a yield point of 38-40 kg/mm�. This material was used for the longitudinal torpedo bulkheads.
Vertical Protection.
The external armoured citadel included a main KC vertical belt that was 320 mm thick, 5.2 meters wide, and 170.7 meters long. It covered 70% of the waterline (by far the greatest extent of any WWII battleship), and protected the armour deck, the upper platform deck, and part of the middle platform deck. The belt was backed with a 50 mm thick layer of teakwood that helped absorb shock damage, and it was bolted onto 20-25 mm thick side plating. The majority of the belt was located above the waterline (3.2/2.0 meters as designed, but 2.8/2.4 meters in practice), with the reasoning that shells are more likely to hit above than below the waterline. The citadel area above the main belt was armoured with 145 mm thick KC plates that protected the battery deck all the way to the armoured upper deck. This plating could also provide a protected waterplane area in the event of severe lists, decap and slow heavy APC shells, and stop light shells outright. Finally, lighter plating was mounted well forward and aft of the main belt (60 mm Wh forward and 80 mm Wh aft), and this protected nearly the entire waterplane area from splinter of light shell damage.
The belt armour was also inclined outward to increase its resistance in regions forward, abeam, and aft of the main turrets and their magazines, with the cambered sections occupying around 50% of the main belt's length. The outboard inclination was 17�, 10�, 7�, and 8-10� abreast turrets Anton, Bruno, Dora, and C�sar respectively. This accorded additional protection while not compromising stability by compressing the bulk of the waterplane area inboard, and especially in the critical amidships area.
The hull was divided into transverse sections by 22 bulkheads that varied in thickness. The KC armoured bulkhead between sections XIX and XX (frame 202.7) was located in front of turret "Anton", and it marked the citadel's forward limit. This bulkhead extended from the upper deck down to the middle platform deck, and varied in thickness as it descended (145 mm at the level of the battery and armour decks, 220 mm thick at the upper platform deck, and 180 mm at the middle platform deck). It was partially shielded by the ship's 60 mm forward plating, which presented very poor attack angles to shells being fired from the bow quarters. Aft of turret "Dora", between sections II and III (frame 32), there was another armoured transverse bulkhead of similar characteristics, and this was reinforced by the stern's 80 mm thick splinter plating. These two transverse bulkheads, together with the longitudinal side belt and armoured upper deck, defined the external citadel (armour box) which protected the ship outboard areas. The internal raft accorded additional protection to the vitals, as we shall see when examining the horizontal protection scheme.
Hmmmm,
So, Hawker, do I take all this to mean you have a rather high regard for the Bismarck?
On a more serious note - my brother Bill visited the Bismarck a couple years ago (not many can say they have been on her)...it is an rather impressive looking ship.
Hmmmm,
So, Hawker, do I take all this to mean you have a rather high regard for the Bismarck?
On a more serious note - my brother Bill visited the Bismarck a couple years ago (not many can say they have been on her)...it is an rather impressive looking ship.
Hmmmm,
So, Hawker, do I take all this to mean you have a rather high regard for the Bismarck?
On a more serious note - my brother Bill visited the Bismarck a couple years ago (not many can say they have been on her)...it is an rather impressive looking ship.
Yes, he said it was - and very spooky too. They got to the site over the Bismarck on the anniversery of the day she was sunk (just by coincidence). Had a couple former Bismarck crewmen on board with them (turned out they were very funny and friendly guys too).
I got a souvineer, a 12 oz styrofoam cup that was dated and marked and set on Bismarcks' deck - water pressure reduced it to the size of a shot-glass (very small).
He had some interesting stories about the dive and trip over..
Hey B, that's cool -- was that trip filmed by any chance? Seems like I saw something similar on PBS or History Channel or some such. I don't think it was Deep Sea Detectives, either; pretty sure I saw something televised that had Cameron in it. Seems like one of those survivors was a Bismarck radio op.
Thanks for the popcorn, btw. Are the Stones gonna play halftime?[:D]
I will share this, ... The big Swastika that was painted on the Foredeck of Bismarck is still there and quite visible. He said that remembering the photos of Hitler right there - on that very spot when touring the ship before she set out on her faitful voyage...brought home the reality that they were sort of 'walking through real history' as they were down there.
The many many shell holes abundant all her over above her waterline, the boots seen in the sand around her - all has a very humbling experience on the rest of us who read about it, but as normal humans, can't quite connect that what we read as history - is indeed very very real.
The two Bismarck crewmen who accompanied them laid a wreath in the water when they left (at a nice ceremony that was performed by the ships captain and crew - to salute fellow sailors and warriors) for their fallen commrades, a rather solemn occasion as he said.
I'd have liked to gone along.
B
EDIT: Pretty sure during the ceremonial wreath laying the ship's band played "Ich Hat Ein Kommeraden"(if that's how it's spelled)
