Japanese production - no PDU game

[BlackVoid]

Sorry if this was mentioned before, I did not have the nerve to read the whole thread.

Japanese production is in the game, so that the Allies can hurt it:
- by cutting supply
- by direct attacks on it from the air

No such threat developed to US supply or production during the war and that is why its not simulated.

The Allies someway or other should hurt the japanese economy. Historically, allied subs did a good job of this in 43-44. Do the same or come up with another strategy instead of whining. There is also the alternative of using a mod, play PDU off or hands-off japanese production. I am not saying that the production system does not need tweaks or corrections, but I don't think it breaks the game.

There are much bigger problems with the game: playback mismatches, ground combat, .....

[ChezDaJez]

But I feel that it takes time. Your not gonna win the economic war in one or maybe even two years. IRL it took until the end of '44 to cripple the Japanese economy.

True but look at the time frame when we got really serious about it. That wasn't until early-mid 43. So it only took a little over a year of anticommerce submarine warfare to produce crippling results. In my game example, I had to wait until early 43 when the US subs became effective before having any significat impact. I believe that by January 1944 my opponents ability to move oil would have been seriously curtailed. Unfortunately the game ended before then.

Your statement that it takes time is also very true. But that is also a problem with players on both sides of the game. They don't want to wait before beginning their next operation. They want to take the entire SRA on day 1 or march to Tokyo within 1year. They want to stay ahead of the historical timeline and to hell with any long-term strategy.

The actual war would have gone much longer if our leaders had decided that anticommerce warfare would take too long to produce results.

Chez

[tabpub]

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

But I feel that it takes time. Your not gonna win the economic war in one or maybe even two years. IRL it took until the end of '44 to cripple the Japanese economy.

True but look at the time frame when we got really serious about it. That wasn't until early-mid 43. So it only took a little over a year of anticommerce submarine warfare to produce crippling results. In my game example, I had to wait until early 43 when the US subs became effective before having any significat impact. I believe that by January 1944 my opponents ability to move oil would have been seriously curtailed. Unfortunately the game ended before then.

Your statement that it takes time is also very true. But that is also a problem with players on both sides of the game. They don't want to wait before beginning their next operation. They want to take the entire SRA on day 1 or march to Tokyo within 1year. They want to stay ahead of the historical timeline and to hell with any long-term strategy.

The actual war would have gone much longer if our leaders had decided that anticommerce warfare would take too long to produce results.

Chez

I am trying the anticommerce strategy in PBM; American boats by end of June 43 have 160 confirmed torpedo kills, with 25+ being TK/AO; shall have to come up with the junior Allied totals later if interested. Last report from opponent griping about his situation said that he had shut down Merchie prod to keep the HI for a/c production; but, I think he is reversing that somewhat, as now he has a bit of shortfall in merchie hulls.

You are right on about the cat/mouse thing; he has started to pay attention to routing annd the \HappyTime is over for now; having to do the patrol route thing again. Though, it's easier with Chennault and the boys giving air search out of China now....and mining every port on the coast that they can reach.

[jolly_pillager]

ORIGINAL: pauk

ORIGINAL: jolly_pillager

That's not what he said Pauk.

What he said is that, even with e VERY successful expansion phase that captured most of it's goals intact, the Japanese economy was producing a fraction of the airframes you see in a typical PBEM game.

i always thought that this VERY successful expansion phase ended with plenty of damaged/destroyed oil centers (in RL) and thus Japan was unable to expand their production (at least i've got this impression from the earlier threads where the very same people as we have here said that (more or less))... i think i know what is my problem - i can remember some stuff....
[;)]

I am not sure I am following your point here...are you saying that capturing oil fields completely intact should allow a several hundred % increase in air frame production (over historical) in the period of 6-12 months (or even 24-36 months for that matter)?

If it is merely the supply of oil why did Japan not do this when it could freely buy all the oil it needed?

This is saying that the limiting factor for Japanese industrial expansion is the availability of oil...and that, with oil, this expansion could happen at a breakneck pace. I would counter this by saying that the availability of oil was the major limitation on existing Japanese production and that the limitation against a massive increase in capacity was infrastructure, a trained labor pool, machine tool factories, more factories as opposed to shop level production for parts, and severe political problems with procurement and development.

The most important thing the Japanese needed was time...years and years of it with a stable economy and no war.

[ChezDaJez]

This is saying that the limiting factor for Japanese industrial expansion is the availability of oil...and that, with oil, this expansion could happen at a breakneck pace.

It doesn't happen anywhere near a breakneck pace. Each factory will increase from 0-2 points per day IF the resource and HI requirements are met. If there is insufficient HI or resource, no expansion takes place. Even if the requirements are met , they sometimes don't expand. I figure there must be some kind of die roll involved like with the repair of ships.

HI is the life blood of the Japanese empire. Without it, nothing gets produced. So the japanese player must ensure a sufficient stream of resources and oil reaching the home islands to produce anything. Stop that and you stop Japan's ability to produce anything once her reserves are gone.

Capturing the SRA fields intact greatly helps with an earlier expansion, not faster.

Chez

edit: spelling

[dtravel]

ORIGINAL: Mogami
submarines in WITP will follow enemy TF. All you have to do is set them to computer control after they reach the hex you want them to patrol in. They will stay in the assigned hex untill they make a contact and then will follow it on their own.

Has anyone actually seen this happen? No offense Mogami, but there are just too many things in the program that we are told are supposed to work a certain way and don't when tested.