Post Map and OOB Comments Here

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

OK, I guess no one else has noticed it, so I will point it out. I guess the reason that British ships don't have float planes is because the British, since early 1941, began to rely on radar. By late 1941, the Walrus was being phased out aboard ship, and in late 1941 and 1942 catapaults were being removed, so that by 1943 most British cruisers and battleships had them landed. While PoW and Repulse DID have their float planes, IIRC they were the only British capital ships to have their catapaults plus float planes when deployed to the Far East/Pacific.

I agree that it would be nice to have them, but considering had they survived it is quite probable that by mid-late 1942 they would have been landed, it would be a waste to spend effort to get them in to the game, when they would hardly be used. I would like ot see them, but I won't cry if I don't get them.

Is this well documented? I know the Aussie ships used their FPs a fair amount in early 42 but had to actually "STOP" in mid ocean to recover them (some Walruses actually fell apart during retrieval), freaking out their American counterparts like RAdmiral Smith who was used to the sled underway recovery used by the USN. If so, I'll retract my request for Walruses and Commonwealth FPs. If they were rarely used, do not include them. Use the space and effort for other issues.

Most of the refits for RN/RAN?RNZN ships show cats removed about 43 onwards in game anyway.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Pascal

South Pacific HQ should be in Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7. It did not exist until later and was first based in New Zealand.

We know...should have been fixed before release. Same with SWPAC HQ with Mac as head honcho (should arrive in April I think). Could use some sub HQs as well like COMSUBPAC etc...Lockwood, Christie, Fife etc need jobs so they don't get used as combat Admirals...beauracrats should not get sea commands.

[Pascal_slith]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

ORIGINAL: Pascal

South Pacific HQ should be in Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7. It did not exist until later and was first based in New Zealand.

We know...should have been fixed before release. Same with SWPAC HQ with Mac as head honcho (should arrive in April I think). Could use some sub HQs as well like COMSUBPAC etc...Lockwood, Christie, Fife etc need jobs so they don't get used as combat Admirals...beauracrats should not get sea commands.

Definitely agree about the sub commands. Do you believe it would have been worthwhile to add the logistics/yard/base/construction commands too?

[SamRo]

Short Singapore was a bie plane fling boat.
but in the game it's a DH Dragon FLy.... opps LOL

not to bothered mind ace game.

o HMS Repulse looks like HMS Renown AKA no fling bridge.

[Wilhammer]

On the USN AC after August 1945, the Hellcat was being phased out of production, and the Bearcat was replacing it, totally.

Certainlly by the end of 1945, the Hellcat would not be on the Fast Carriers in large numbers.

They would all be Bearcats.

The anti-Kamikaze plane, the Ryan Fireball, should be in the game.

Perhaps the Banshee as well - the Kamikaze issue was a big one - think of them as the world's first guided missiles, and you understand it better.

So, faster planes with heavy armamament was needed fast, and the USN was going to have them at the time of the invasion of Japan, the new Corsairs, F8F Bearcats, Ryan Fireball, and the FH1 Banshee.

In its CAS role, the USN was also about to deploy the Mauler, Skyraider, and Tigercat.

[Pascal_slith]

Same comment I made earlier concerning the mislocation of SoPac HQ goes for North Pacific HQ too. North Pac HQ should start in PH or SF. In any case, wouldn't it be possible to make these, and CenPac HQ and SoWesPac HQ, arrive later in the month of Dec? I don't have my references handy just now, but I seem to remember they were not created till late Dec., early Jan. Plus it would be interesting to make the Allied player pay PP's to transfer to these commands, simulating the inertia and difficulties of implementing a new command structure.

I'm also working on the list of bases in the Pacific that did exist on Dec. 7th. There are far too many for the moment.

[Iron Duke]

Hi,

1.The Beaufighter Mk21 is appearing to early , should not appear until May 44 (appearing in Jan 43)

2.No 30 and 31 RAAF sqd's arriving with Mk21's should be VIF's (see above)

3.No 8 RAAF sqd arriving with Mk21's should be Beaufort V

ref= Flying Squadrons of the Australian Defence Force by Steve Eather
Beaufighter Squadrons in focus by Simon Parry
British Warplanes of ww2 edited d.j.march

cheers

[Iron Duke]

Hi,

I've noticed that US units both LCU's and LBA's that are assigned to Southeast Asia HQ are appearing on the west coast of America is this correct, would'nt it be more correct to have them appear at Karachi?
I've allways thought , maybe incorrectly , that these forces were shipped via the Atlantic and round the Cape?

Cheers

[JohnK]

ORIGINAL: Wilhammer

So, faster planes with heavy armamament was needed fast, and the USN was going to have them at the time of the invasion of Japan, the new Corsairs, F8F Bearcats, Ryan Fireball, and the FH1 Banshee.

In its CAS role, the USN was also about to deploy the Mauler, Skyraider, and Tigercat.

I'm given to understand that during Beta (don't know, since I was rejected for playtesting I only glanced at the boards sporadically to see when it was coming out) it was basically decided to pretend American AC development stopped sometime early in 1944 and not to bother with anything beyond the F4U-1D and P-51D for the game (despite it potentially lasting till March 1946), as best I can tell since the "Americans had enough advantages already."

Of course, if as an American player you've screwed up enough that the war lasts till Mar. 46 I think you'd really need those more advanced A/C

Looking at the editor there isn't room to add that stuff; there's no room to add any more American CV-based aircraft without deleting something, you could get in some more land based stuff. To add them now would require a radical redesign of the databases.

This one looks like a futile fight.

[tsimmonds]

I don't know if this one has already been picked up but the Tachibana class DD's have a forward facing type 13 Radar in the place where it appears a 5in gun should be. (The editor also lists this radar as having 36 ammo!)

That's no radar, it's the ultrasecret microwave Omnidirectional Variable-intensity Electron Neutralizer, or OVEN. Works equally well vs ships, aircraft, or popcorn.

[Don Bowen]

The work in the allied Naval OOB is flat-out excellent. Especially impressive is the detail in the merchant shipping. I've gone through much of it and found only minor items. Have not started the major warships yet - the volume is daunting and what I've glanced at seemed good.

The ability to specify ship upgrade paths is fantastic and there are lots of empty slots to do it in. Duplicating some classes for differing upgrade paths seems very attractive - like multiple Flush Deck copies for the upgraded DD, DE Conversion and APD Conversion.

Here is an accumulation of what I've found so far. Much of this has already been posted but I gathered it all together.


Flush Deck DDs Waters, Schley and Ward defined as DD (3682, 3684, 3685) and duplicated as APD (4093, 4095, 4100). An excellent place for the DD -> APD upgrade class.

Old British Submarines Porpoise (4691), Clyde (4692), Rorqual (4693) were fairly large. If their own class is not worth while they should be "T" class instead of "S".

Misspellings:
(3661) DD Aylwin is misspelled Alwin (this same error was in UV and must be in an on-line source)
(4268) AV Norton Sound is misspelled Norten Sound

The River class is defined and split into British built (1366) and Australian built (1367) - very nice. However, I can not find any ships assigned to either class. There were 8 or 10 Australian, with 6 completed in 1943-1945 and the rest post-war. Don't know about the British


Missing Ships:

Indian Sloops:
Indus (Grimsby Class - in WITP as Swan class)
Hindustan, Jumna, Sutlej, Narbada, Godavari (Bittern class and variants, class not defined WIPT)

Indian Minesweepers:
Bengal, Madras, Bombay, Punjab (Bangor)

Old US AKs: Regulus (AK-14), Sirius (AK-15), Spica (AK-16), Vega (AK-17)

AK Gold Star (actually an General Auxiliary - AG - but that has a different meaning in WITP) - attached to Asiatic Fleet and used as cargo ship.

Large Dutch Gunboat Soemba

Dutch Naval Minelayer William van der Zaan.

APDs Tattnall (APD-19) and Roper (APD-20)

Lapwing Class AVPs Avocet, Teal, Swan (Heron is there but as an AVD)

Large Coast Guard Cutter Taney (at Pearl with Reliance and Tiger)

Ex-Cutter AGCs Bibb, Ingham, Spencer

ex-Barnegat AGC Biscayne (AVP-11 -> AGC 18)

Large Transport Orizaba (AP-24)

US Army Transport Etolin. And, if you really wanted to get picky - USAT President Harrison

Large British Transport Sarpedon

Large Dutch Cargo Ship Abbekerk

Norwegian Tanker Norden

Australian Naval Oiler Karumba

The very large US APs Wakefield (AP-21) and Mount Vernon (AP-22). West Point (AP-23) is there but as a L-AP (US). I would vote for a new class.

Aircraft transports - Kittyhawk, Hammondsport, Lakehurst and the British Athene. Not sure if WITP could handle them but their net effect might be simulated by a CVE with no aviation ordance or by a very large AK. Just wouldn't want them cluttering up the CVE lists.

Philippine Army Offshore Patrol PT boats Q-111, Q-112, Q-113, Q-114, Q-115 (Thornycroft Type) at Manila

British MTB Squadron 2 at Hong Kong: MTB 7,8,9,10,11,12 (British Power Boat) and 26, 27 (Thornycroft)

All the British Tenders.


First impressions (not yet researched)

A lot of small dutch ships, especially the KPM ships, are missing (some are there). Ships did valuable work in NEI and Australia/New Guinea.

All of the old British "C" class are shown in their CLAA conversions. A couple were still in their original CL configuration when the war began.

Can't seem to find the late war Japanese landing ships of the "ES" and "Type 1" types. The "Type 101/103" series might be worthwhile as well.

Also the Japanese Army Landing ships, Shinshu Maru, Akitsu Maru class, etc.


The search in the new editor is always from the beginning (UV one was from current point onward). Makes it hard to find duplicates.

Don

P.S. Got to stop for a while - too much WITP causes eyestrain, stiff neck, and a sitter's problem known as f'tass.

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Is this well documented? I know the Aussie ships used their FPs a fair amount in early 42 but had to actually "STOP" in mid ocean to recover them (some Walruses actually fell apart during retrieval), freaking out their American counterparts like RAdmiral Smith who was used to the sled underway recovery used by the USN. If so, I'll retract my request for Walruses and Commonwealth FPs. If they were rarely used, do not include them. Use the space and effort for other issues.

Most of the refits for RN/RAN?RNZN ships show cats removed about 43 onwards in game anyway.

Well, I was referring more to RN ships, to be honest I have no idea about RAN and RNZN ships. It would seem to me that the RAN cruisers would stop using theirs too (stopping to recover is suicide). Still, I would like to see Walrus planes, but not if they are going to cost me to lose a valuable CA or BB.

[Tankerace]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

The ability to specify ship upgrade paths is fantastic and there are lots of empty slots to do it in. Duplicating some classes for differing upgrade paths seems very attractive - like multiple Flush Deck copies for the upgraded DD, DE Conversion and APD Conversion.

I fully agree with this, and in fact was asking about it prior to WiTP's release. While THe game is massive enough, and I am thankful for what is in there, to get the most out of the Flush Deckers (Clemson and Wickes classes), this is necesary. A Flush decker has an armament of 4 4"/50 SP guns, whereas the DE version has 6 3"/50 DP guns. In a game where AA guns are necessary, this is a must.

As far as converting to APDs, this I will not agree with quite as much, but for my own reasons. Since WiTP assumes we the player have some influence, I myself don't use APDs that much, but using Flush Deckers for ASW would release Fletchers later in the war for AA and escort duties.

[Bombur]

Bombur, There was a special (production run unit) the 47th Independent Flying Chutai which operated Ki-44 Shoki fighters ( six IIRC ) in fought in both Malaya and Burma Dec 41 thru April 42.

Source: "A Boody Shambles" Vol.2 ( Shores )

Regards

-You´re right, I´m wrong. I found the info the the Web....how could I dare to correct Gary Grigsby....too much arrogance....
[&o]

[Pascal_slith]

Excellent piece of work Don. May I ask your sources for the merchantmen? I myself only have "The World's Merchant Fleets 1939" and a few works on the Liberty and Victory classes.

[McNaughton]

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

OK, I guess no one else has noticed it, so I will point it out. I guess the reason that British ships don't have float planes is because the British, since early 1941, began to rely on radar. By late 1941, the Walrus was being phased out aboard ship, and in late 1941 and 1942 catapaults were being removed, so that by 1943 most British cruisers and battleships had them landed. While PoW and Repulse DID have their float planes, IIRC they were the only British capital ships to have their catapaults plus float planes when deployed to the Far East/Pacific.

I agree that it would be nice to have them, but considering had they survived it is quite probable that by mid-late 1942 they would have been landed, it would be a waste to spend effort to get them in to the game, when they would hardly be used. I would like ot see them, but I won't cry if I don't get them.

All of my sources state...

1943: Most Cruisers had their seaplanes landed
1944: Most Battleships had their seaplanes landed

There are many accounts where RN seaplanes from ships were launched (one of Repulse's Walrus' survived as it was flying above the ships during the attach, ran out of fuel and was towed back to Singapore). They SHOULD be included, up to about 1943. The upgrades gradually remove the aircraft carrying capacity of RN ships, so this will solve the reliance on Radar factor, which started in 1943, BUT allow for seaplane use in 1942.

[Lemurs!]

Hi all,

I mentioned the Momi/Minekaze problem back in the UV days but again it slipped through the cracks! The Momi should have 3 DD's (which are correctly in the game) and the rest should be DE's with heavy ASW armament, they were not used as APD's due to small size.
The Minekaze class should be completely converted to APD's
as none were used as destroyers, they all had part of their engine removed, 20kt speed etc.

I would also second the comment on the lack of Japanese landing craft, and the worlds first LSD. They didn't have much, but they did have some!

Mike

[tsimmonds]

the worlds first LSD. They didn't have much, but they did have some!

Oh wow, and I thought it was Hoffman, man.

Sorry, in a strange mood today[:'(]. Must be because I'm working instead of PLAYING THIS GREAT GAME!

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Pascal

May I ask your sources for the merchantmen? I myself only have "The World's Merchant Fleets 1939" and a few works on the Liberty and Victory classes.

Hi

Destination Corregidor - Robert L Underbrink, US Naval Institute, ISBN 0-87021-142-0
- Excellent detail on the attempts to run supplies into the Philippines.

Operation Pacific - Edwyn Gray, US Naval Institute, ISBN 1-55750-650-7
- Adequate History of the British Eastern/Pacific Fleets. Only gives decent details for larger ships, war losses and those around major battles or campaigns.

US Army Ships and Watercraft of World War II, David H Grover, Naval Istitute Press, ISBN 0-87021-766-6
- Encyclopedia list of all Army vessels - same format as Merchant Fleets but a little more detail here and there, including on the SWPA fleet.

Royal Australian Navy
1939-1942, G. Herman Gill, Griffin Press, no ISBN
1942-1945, G. Herman Gill, Griffin Press, no ISBN
- Official Histories, only gives history of individual ships when in action or major movements. Lots of "warship so and so escorted merchant ship so and so" references.

Australian and New Zealand Warships 1914-1945, Ross Gillett, Doubleday Australia, ISBN 0 86824 095 8
- EXCELLENT - details of every ship, down to motorboats, with historical notes on most.

U.S. Merchant Vessel War Casualties of World War II, Robert Browning, Naval Institute Press, ISBN 1-55750-087-8
- Full list but the Matrix team already had them!

British and Empire Warships of the Second World War, H.T. Lenton, Naval Institute, ISBN 1-55750-048-7
- Not much operational detail but superb ship data.

The U.S. Army official histories (US Government Printing Office - the Green Books) which occasionally mention merchant men.

And good old Merchant Fleets 1939, which you mentioned. Just got proved really wrong by this one - I was argueing with a fellow in Australia who insisted he had proof that the Dutch SS Bantam delivered P-40s to Australia in early 1942. I have a copy of a SWPA memo listing the cargo of SS Bantam that did not include any P-40, so I disagreed. Turns out there were two Dutch SS Bantam, both carrying cargos to Australia in the first couple of months of 1942.

Websites:
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/ (for checking)
http://www.hamstat.demon.co.uk/HongKong/Fleet_C.html
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/cutterlist.html
http://www.usmm.org/ships.html
http://troopships.pier90.org/
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/depot_ships.htm - WARNING, POP UP HEAVEN!
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/ (everyone's old friend)
http://mns.ewebs.com/ (Australian Merchant Fleets plus KPM)
http://www.britain-at-war.org.uk/html/t ... ng_sun.htm

and

www.google.com - any time I have a question on a specific ship or class or battle - there should be another w in www for wonderful!

Probably some more sites but I frequently fail to bookmark when I'm researching.


Don

[pad152]

OOB - Errors

Campaign 15

Aircraft upgrades

Unit
1169 - 246 Squadron FG (Buffalo I) wants to upgrade to Datokas?

1166 – 273 Squadron TB (Viderbeest IV) wants to upgrade to Hurricane II?