Petition for Battleships in Starshatter

[Diabolico]

Looks nice. Diabolico, why don't you say anything about it?

... oh don't worry, I will!!! You know me better than that...[;)]

[Diabolico]

Is this worth a web bloodshed over a topic that has nothing to do with SS?
Do you guys want to fragilise a small but growing community with stupid jokes like that? Why don't you make stupid jokes about your own countries? Indeed, like small little children it is always easier to insult somebody else...
I know you have your freedom of speech that allows you to insult France here and now. But remember that what goes around always comes around and other people may find offensive what you write and may well use their freedom of speech too and if that happens, it will become very sticky and hot in here, wich is not what this forum is intended to.

hey!! its the USS France!!

Here are some pics of french Battleships, of the Richelieu class (6 built) :






French BB on the left.

And here you can find the technical readout of the ship and it's class :

French BB Richelieu



Here is what Haze and Gray says about the French BBs :

the Richelieu were true battleships, with 15-Inch guns. They would have surpassed any German ships available at the time(...) Despite some drawbacks, they were excellent ships, that could be favorably compared to their British contemporary as to firepower and armor. (...) By contrast to the British or the Germans, the French did not shelved their plans for new battleships when they entered the war in 1939. A third Richelieu, laid down in 1939, was continued and two other classes of ships only waited for an available slipway to be started. These slipways were a major problem actually. Only three were big enough in France to build battleships or aircraft carriers. Their availability seriously limited France shipbuilding abilities. Admiral Darlan, the fleet minister planned to build a new one, but the defeat put that program on hold. (...)Off the six units lost during the conflict, five were victim of willful destruction. (...)

The french have nothing to be ashamed off regarding their BBs or anything else. They faced a much powerfull invader that had natural borders with France and that had invaded most of Europe and a part of Asia too.
The caribbean states, Canada or Mexico never were and never will have military, economical and the industrial strenght of the US.
The Germans or the Japanese were never a real threat to continental US, even if some time "in time" they may deploy an attempt of invasion.
The US was and is self sufficient.
If Brittain wasn't an island with all the implications that stands for, they'd probably had been invaded as well.

Can't be...there's not enough armor on the aft quarter to protect it during "rapid retreats" (i.e. running away and asking Anglo-Saxons for help)

Oh there is! And there are even 9 152 cm guns in 3 triple turrets that should proove awesome on close quarters.
The 2 most precious things for me are "life" and "freedom".
It is better to retreat, unless staying and giving your life will result in bringing life and freedom to a superior number of people than a BB's crew.
And in the event of beeing threatened I don't see anything wrong in running if you can't win or if your death won't contribute to anything.
I don't see anything wrong in asking for help.
The wise man recognizes his limits and profits the best from them to achieve maximum result.

"U.S.S" doesn't have to stand for "United States Ship" ya know...surrender starts with an "S" for example.

So does "stupidity". I suggest that if you don't appreciate people making fun of your country don't make fun of other people's countries.
Because even if "in your eyes" that sort of humour (like the "anti-french" jokes) is not an insult in your opinion, it is an insult to other people.
I myself find it insulting. I am not french but live in France. This country is a wonderfull country and I don't think it deserves such comments.
Other, the American people are made of lots of other peoples, like italians, portuguese, canadian, mexican, polish, only too name a few and even if you are a descendant from any of those "Mayflower" pilgrims, you shouldn't be talking like that.
[:-]

Given my country's historic background I always try to be a little careful in these matters, but now that you mention it, as I recall the Vietnamese said after the second Vietnam/Indochina war, that the French fought harder in the first than the Americans in the second...

I have heard that too and it is a war the americans lost as well and where they retreated from.

There is nothing to be ashamed off other than the horrors of war committed by each side, but then that's war.

Come now, thats a matter of opinion and you know it. Both sides technically fought for about the same length of time, and both sides were forced to withdrawn after their populations got tired of what seemed like an endless war on the otherside of the planet. However there is a major distinction between the two. The final blow in Vietnam for the French if I recall correctly was Dien Bien Phu and the disaster that turned out to be. In contrast the US exit out of Vietnam was followed after Operation Linebackers I and II the uniformed mass bombing of North Vietnam by every last B-52 in the US Air Force on a continual basis. The NVA didnt want their country bombed into the stonage and thus went to Paris to resume peacetalks after I began. Talks break down, and thus II begaun which had the NVA return to the negotiating table. In the end the US withdrew with a ceasefire intact..to bad it didnt last longer than five minutes after US troops left entirely.

Very well, but there is one bit of a difference between the way the two countries fought the war: the French did not fight that war with such an extensive amount of air support and still stayed there for such a long time, anf they did not call for Anglo-Saxon support, did they?
Think of it that way: what happened if the American troops had fought that war without so much carpet bombing and helicopters.
Don't get me wrong I do have respect for every Soldier that fights in a war, but since WWII it seems to me that the American troops seem to be unable to conduct major military operation without air superiority and air support, no matter whether the enemy has any kind of air support or not.
Think of the Ardennes where the Allied troops could only mount a counterattack as soon as the wheather got better and they could use their air force.

But I think this may be the wrong place to discuss this matter anyway...we are here to discuss "Air support" from BBs, aren't we?

Indeed, you must compare what is comparable.
France at that time was a battered country, still recovering from WW2.
The US was still an industrial giant on it's full military strength.
It seems to me a bigger disaster for the US than for France (the Vietnam War defeat), considering the huge means the americans putted in like in the above mentioned posts, the loss of life and the fortune involved in feeding that war.

And as Mr. D said, this is indeed the wrong place to be discussing this or any other non-SS related issues, as it will certainly open other negative possibilities.
Again, this is not a political forum.
I expect better from people like Damocles, Melkor, Phoenix, Yankee and many others to let this die here, before we will all loose our heads and start some "murderous" and ravaging threads here... [:-]

That is all,

=S=

[Diabolico]

[:D]Thanks Necromancer!! I do think you are on the right track!
I'd suggest only you add more windows like in the devastator, perhaps also work out the antennas...
Size looks very good and I am dying to try your BB out!
I hope it is balanced with SS ships?
Dying to see how your Hegemony version of the BB will be like! Perhaps a bigger version of the vendetta?
Perhaps afterwards you'll look into the Dentari separatists too? The Zolons? [:D]
Also feel free to use SSC as you please in order to stock and diffuse your work.
I will answer soon your mail about the pic you've sent me regarding your work on the BB Yamato ships (wich I consider awesome). In fact, you and TurgotZ should team up, along with Doctor Melkor for better results! [;)]

[Diabolico]

Closer to the origional concept of the thread (I think anyway)... I didn't design it as a modified freighter, I tried to stay close to the origional Alliance ship designs to make it look like a 'military' ship... I think I'm going to try for a more 'freighter' look when I do the the next ship... I think the Alliance could afford to put a true battleship in space, but the Hegemony would have to resort to a refit program to space something comperable...

Indeed! Very close! Why break your head spending hours if you can make bigger versions of what already exists?... even though new ships look a lot cooler! [;)][:D]
I think you are in a good direction Nec! Make it Military! The Hegemony has more worlds than the Alliance, if I am not mistaken, so I think they could afford to have BBs of their own.
Besides, on the campaigns they can throw in a few battlegroups with 2 vendettas each. Those "cruiser" BGs are asking for a BB. [:D]
As for the "more freighter looking BB", I'd suggest you'd make it for the dentari separatists, where in my opinion, it'd better fit in.
Keep it up Sir!!![&o]

=S=

[Diabolico]

As far as a Hegemony 'retrofitted' BB...I could imagine a carrier without any fighters and torp launchers crammed into it's fighter bays, or a cruiser with large amounts of armor bolted on or something else...I did like the suggestion made earlier about freighters refitted with a huge amount of warhead launcher and perhaps military-grade shielding. Seems like a throw-away counter to BB's. Overwhelm the PD and some torps are bound to get through. If you lose a couple missile platforms, oh well, you sunk their battleship!

Excellent idea! And it wouldn't be hard to develop.

PS I didn't mean to offend anyone with the france/surrender reference. Sorry if I did.

I really appreciate those words, Phoenix and I am sure that also does Mr. D.
I am sorry if I offended anybody with my posts but I really have enough of those anti-french jokes and "freedom fries"!
I was very hurt that people like you, Damoclex, Melkor, etc. - who are "pillars" of this SS community, walked on such paths and made such comments.

=S=

[Diabolico]

I will make desktop wallpaper out of that image!!![:D]
You can't imagine how impatient I am to get my hands on that and on the other BBs!!! [:D]

=S=

[Mr. D]

I always liked the looks of the Richelieu, a very impressive ship.
As for stupidities in your own country: I'll make the start.
The Germans once torpedoed a passenger liner with Winston Churchill aboard.
They fired three torpedoes, all three hit....none detonated.
I guess the Commander of the U-Boat sait something like "So much for German quality...I'm gonna go home and get a beer!"

[Diabolico]

I always loved BBs [:D]...
As for jokes on other countries, I think this should end here and now, before this becomes a World Forum War.[:D]
I myself won't post anymore on those topics (wich I didn't start) unless provoked.
Let's all forget this and move forward...

=S=

[Freaky]

8 Plasma Lasers (Because I couldn't figure out the weapon tag for Gamma Ray Lasers like the Devistator is armed -- anyone know off hand)

Code: Select all

weapon:     {
    type:             "Gamma Laser",
    design:           "Beam Weapon",

Should do the trick.

[Necromancer]

Now why didn't I think of that...Thanks Freaky!! Ok so in that case make it 8 Gamma ray lasers instead of 8 Plasma Lasers.
Does anyone have a list of all the stock SS weapons, twould make my life a might bit easier...

I've almost finished the .def on her, no debris or lights yet, I might have time to get to those tonight. I'm going to try a couple of different designs for the Hegemony and see if I hit on something I like, I want to avoid just 'scaling' up a cruiser and packing it full of weapons, if I'm going to design these bad boys I'd like to make sure they're different enough so that when you see one hanging there in space off in the distance you get shivers thinking about attacking it. Any suggestions on weaponry or am I close to what you guys would think an SS BB would have? Yep, It's going to be ballanced with Stock SS ships (testing it last night I hulled an unfortunate FF at close quarters with her main guns in one salvo! so I've got a little ways to go there), the Devistator in my pic can put a hurting on it if it can get the athenas through the PD, I've not tried it in any fighter engagements yet though (Diab, I may ask you to do that part of the testing so I can work on the Hegemony ship).


Nec

[Diabolico]

Thank you so much Freaky! Anything that may help Nec making BBs is a great pleasure to me! [;)][:D][&o]

=S=

[Necromancer]

Here's a couple of screenies of the Hegemony Battleship... I've tried to encompass all the different aspects of the thread so far...

[Necromancer]

Second Screenie..

As you can see, The Hegemony BB relies on several things, long and thin, it mounts most of it's weaponry externally, a fighter/auxillary dock extends from the port side, while an extrenal missile battery extends from the starboard side,
in addition her high powered laser weaponry is mounted externally in two pods one port and starboard, each containing 4 laser weapons.

let me know what you think...

[crazyeddie22]

Being english i have to ask you this diabolico... try not to take too much offense, but did you watch the rememberance cerempony for the battle of trafalgar


cheers
eddie

[Necromancer]

oh, and background info on the Nexus Class BB..done in computer style...hehe

Welcome to Jane's fighting ships of the Galaxy.....
Initializing Databases.....
Scanning known ship classes....
Scanning known weapon types....

Done.>

Enter Search Criteria.> Battleships, General description of
Enter User Serial Code.> 0485978884993TAP
Enter User Pass Code.> *****
Thank You.>
Welcome Vice Admiral Ross.>

Listing known ships of class search entered>

Ship: Nexus Class Battleship
Nationality: Terellian Alliance
Ships in Svc: 1 (Nexus)
Description: The Nexus Class Battleship was designed to be the most
destructive warship ever spaced by the Alliance. Armed
with 8 powerful Gamma Class Lasers, 4 Fusion torpedo
Launchers, 4 Mk7 Interceptor Launchers and 8 Particle
cannon emplacements, this ship is quite capable of
destroying smaller ships in a single salvo. However, all
of the power of her weaponry comes at a steep price,
without proper escort, the battleship would certainly
fall prey to smaller, more maneuverable opponents. It
also lacks a fully functional CIC, so while this ship
could certainly be used as the core and command centre of
a battlegroup, any admiral and command staff would be hard
put to find a comfortable place to do business. As such,
this ship is typically called out to support a carrier
battlegroup, with the admiralty stationed onboard the carrier.
This ship was designed at the same time the Spectre Class
destroyer was designed, and the first keels of both ships
were layed at the same time, but design and construction
problems delayed its deployment for quite some time. The
origional plans called for an armament of 8 X-Ray Lasers
hard mounted to be fired in tandem, but with the development
of the Gamma Class Lasers and the construction delays the
project had already suffered, the Admiralty decided to
switch out the primary beam weapon type for the more powerfull
of the two types. It is rumored that with the development of
the Athena Class ASM, this class will undergo yet another
refit program soon to mount the heavier missile. The Nexus
class ship has never been tested in battle, however
simulations show that she is quite capable of defending
herself given the proper escort of fighters and capital ships.
Live fire combat trials have been scheduled for late next
year.

[Diabolico]

in that case make it 8 Gamma ray lasers instead of 8 Plasma Lasers.

I think it is an excellent idea!!! I'd see it with at least 4 GRASERS (gamma lasers) as the main guns (twice a stock ss human cruiser, alliance or hegemony) but a true BB would have around those, specially if you make it a big ass. Ideally, you should lodge the grasers on turrets, perhaps 4 above and 4 below, to compensate for their reduce mobility, when compared to other Capital ships.

Does anyone have a list of all the stock SS weapons, twould make my life a might bit easier...

I heard DamoclesX has one but Dr. Melkor should be an "authority" on that as well. I suggest you post for help.
Finnaly, you could experiment with the info on Mehrunes website : http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Mehrunes/ ... dding.html perhaps even contacting him.
I know DamoclesX has broken lots of SS's secrets like when he released the campaigns and huds for SS on SSC. Why don't you mail him and post for help?

I've almost finished the .def on her, no debris or lights yet, I might have time to get to those tonight. I'm going to try a couple of different designs for the Hegemony and see if I hit on something I like, I want to avoid just 'scaling' up a cruiser and packing it full of weapons, if I'm going to design these bad boys I'd like to make sure they're different enough so that when you see one hanging there in space off in the distance you get shivers thinking about attacking it.

You can't imagine what this means to me!!! [&o] Stock SS Balanced BBs!!![:D]
You are on the right track!!!

Any suggestions on weaponry or am I close to what you guys would think an SS BB would have?

Here is what I sugest for the very least minimum weapons a BB should have, for stock SS :

A) Human faction ships (Alliance, Hegemony, Dentari, etc.) :

1) 4 grasers;
2) 4 Nike/Athena missile launchers;
2) 2 Mk7 launchers;
3) 8 PDB guns.
4) at least 2 times the hull and armour of a Vendetta or Devastator cruisers.
5) Shields at least 1,5 times stronger than on the Vendetta or Devastator (at very least the same capacity).

B) Zolon ships :

The Zolon ships don't have missile weapons but have better shields and more powerfull beam weapons and no point defense. Zolon ships seem to move quicker and be more agile than human factions.
For your modding purposes, I will assume that Zolon ships use grasers.
As you know, the Zolon DD (ZZD for game purposes) has 4 grasers (4 main beam weapons). The Zolon Cruiser (ZZC) wich appeared in one of the stock campaigns as a consular ship, has mountings for 6 of those "grasers".
I'd assume that any Zolon BB would have (as the strict minimum) :

1) At least 8 grasers;
2) Shields at least twice more powerfull than on ZZC;
3) Hull and armour points at least twice the ZZC.

I repeat, all these are strict minimums and for a BB, your view on how many weapons they should carry is more balanced than what I just wrote here!

Diab, I may ask you to do that part of the testing so I can work on the Hegemony ship

Oh yes please!!! [&o][&o][&o]

Do you have MSN, ICQ or Yahoo messenger? Please get in contact with me so I can participate in whatever way I can to help you with that!!!

Thank you so much for your contribution to this community with your modding!!!

=S=

[Diabolico]

hmmm.... delicious!!! [:D]
Specially if they could carry fighters and small craft!
I love the design, better than the one you did for the Alliance.
If you could add launching spacecraft capability to your BBs I'd achieve Nirvana!!! [:D]

I'd only suggest smaller turrets than fixed weapons, specially for a BB that risks beeing outurned by a cruiser or smaller Capital ship! [&o]

=S=

[Diabolico]

As you can see, The Hegemony BB relies on several things, long and thin, it mounts most of it's weaponry externally, a fighter/auxillary dock extends from the port side, while an extrenal missile battery extends from the starboard side

Looks very good indeed! I love the possibility to transport and launch fighters to be added to Capital ships!

I sugest making missile and beam weapons on turrets (at least beam weapons) but you know what I think of turrets, don't you nec? [;)][:D][8D]

let me know what you think...

Awesome! Just Awesome!
I'd just see weapons in smaller BB Yamato like turrets! [:D] But it is your call and having BBs for SS, balanced with stock SS ships is already a dream coming through!!!

=S=

[Diabolico]

Being english i have to ask you this diabolico... try not to take too much offense, but did you watch the rememberance cerempony for the battle of trafalgar

No I didn't. I didn't knew it was the aniversary of it.
I did watch a part of the 60th year aniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.
I have family in the UK Eddie. I go there often. I have done most of your country by car. Only Whales and northern Ireland missing, BTW.
Why should I have watched it? I could remind you of the Battle of Pevensey when a part of your country belonged to the french. Then you could remind me of Waterloo, then I could remind you off... it would be a never ending story... [>:]
I will pretend that your post was not ment as a slight provocation eddie and I sugest you don't choose to walk down that path.
Be a sport and write something constructive about BBs, wich is what this thread is made for.

=S=

[Necromancer]

I'm not sure I want to add a small craft launch facility to the Alliance BB, she's so over-gunned at this point it'll bring a tear to your eye, if you read my background on her you'll see why... Most heavy weapons in SS seem to be hard-point mounted, until I can get my hands on a list of weapons I may not be able to mount grasers in turrets, besides, I'm afraid if I did it would unbalance the BBs to much. I want the battleships to rely on it's battlegroup for cover, that is their weakness, almost has to be or they become to powerful, so...hardmounted grasers (a lot of them) to the front, I figure the best defense against these beasts has to be close up combat... heck the Nexus couldn't keep a Devistator cruiser in it's gun sights as it T passed her bow at 147 m/s at 27km.. perfect if you ask me...

I can see that with the Hegemony having more worlds they might be able to space a 'military' BB, so that's why I designed their BB this way, multi role, a wing of 6-12 fighters (not bombers) for close in work and cover, the standard massively devistating beam weapon compliment, a lighter array of both anti-ship and anti-fighter missiles than the alliance BB, with massive point defense for survivability and better command and control facilities. No, its not going to stand toe to toe with the Alliance BB (which was designed for pure fire-power), but outfit those fighters with ASM and whittle it down a bit before you get to the brute-fest portion of the battle....that to me is just sweet...

I donno if I can see the Zolon actually building a battleship, I see them as over-confident about their technology relying on the massive punch of their beam weapons as a way to beat down the ever-increasing size of the human vessels... donno...we'll see... imagine the suprise on that poor lone Zolon commander's erm...face... as he hits a human BB with everything he's got and it looks at him as though he were a fly.... **com'ere... lemme smack you down**

hehe... sorry got carried away there....

I don't have MSN, but methinks you have my email, and I know I have yours...I'll email you from home tonite (maybe send some files once I get them to the point that I'm not embarassed about sending them out...)

Nec

hehe...edit...apparently my fingers thing sweet is spelled sweat...[:D]