Combined Historical Scenario-ALPHA- troubleshooting

[Don Bowen]

Whoops - in creating the 9.2 in gun for Georges Averoff I screwed up and used a device that I had been using for a 3-inch low angle gun - Device 64. The only 3-inch remaining is device 56 - 3in/50 DP.

Anyway, we have about a dozen classes and several dozen ships that should be carrying 3-in that are mounting 9.2in. I am fixing. In the mean time - you got to love those powerful PCs.

I'm also in the process of re-using device 40 as the 5in/38 Mk.12 Pedestal Mount 21. This was previously a 6.1-incher on the French Cruisers that were defined but not used. Name will be either:
5in/38 Mk.12 Pedestal or
5in/38 Mk.12 Mount 21

Don

[Don Bowen]

After viewing the bases that come up "red" on initial load, I'm looking at adding a little supply to a few bases:

Geraldton - has a CD unit but zero supply. How about 150
Albany - also has CD and no supply. Perhaps 200.
Sorong - Seaplane Tender and a small Dutch Seaplane unit, no supply. Shows need of 42. How about 75?
Aquadulce - Has 500 supply, shows a need for about 1200. Not sure on this one.

I'm also going to up the Aviation Support for the 15th USAAF Base Force at Panama City as it is wholely inadequate.

Questions, comments?? Where are all you alphateers??

[bstarr]

Anyone else had trouble with Jap AV Kamoi? I've currently got her endurance and fuel listed as a negative number.

Endurance at -17610(-243)
Fuel at -4696.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Anyone else had trouble with Jap AV Kamoi? I've currently got her endurance and fuel listed as a negative number.

Endurance at -17610(-243)
Fuel at -4696.

Yeah - I see it too on a game that I let run until February, 1942. Can't see any reason for it - looks OK in the class and ship definition. This one is a mystery.

But it checking I found two other ships with questionable data - the Ruler class CVE with 31060 fuel and the British LSI(M) with 12000.

Don

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Anyone else had trouble with Jap AV Kamoi? I've currently got her endurance and fuel listed as a negative number.

Endurance at -17610(-243)
Fuel at -4696.

OK - this one beats me. I am unable to determine what the heaven may have gone wrong. I've deleted and re-created the class, tried moving both the class and the ship to another position (just in case there was some slot specific problem), and even cussed at it a little.

Nothing worked.

I originally gave this ship a high fuel value as it was a converted oiler. Other ships have a higher fuel level with no problems (I experimented with Kaga - slightly higher fuel - and everything worked fine). So, I'll try and admit defeat gracefully and just adjust the damned thing to 3200 fuel. That seems to work OK.

Score: WITP 1, Logic 0.

[Lemurs!]

obviously Matrix put an upper limit on fuel/endurance, just like the bombing altitude bug. Not sure what bozo thought to make the limits so close to what was actually used.
They should have set the bombing limit to 50,000ft not 32768.

Mike

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

obviously Matrix put an upper limit on fuel/endurance, just like the bombing altitude bug. Not sure what bozo thought to make the limits so close to what was actually used.
They should have set the bombing limit to 50,000ft not 32768.

Mike

32768 is a storage related issue - unsigned 2-byte integer. Hit it on endurance too. What really confuses poor old me is the fact that Kaga has a fuel value above 8000 (8208) and works fine. I wonder if there's special code lurking around somewhere??

[bstarr]

I can't load troops at "Middle East" base. May be my bad - Didn't I read somewhere that there was an extra patch from Andy's Map to make the offmap bases work? If so, I ain't got it.

* * *

Also (and this one is bigtime minor) all of the research factories in the original version start off damaged

example at Gumma -
Ki-44-IIb Tojo (38) x 0

but the new research factories don't

example at Tokyo -
Ki-102b Randy (0) x 32

[bstarr]

Ron,
I recall you asking about Hong Kong results, but I can't find the exact post. Anyway, I had poste early that I had witness Hong Kong falling on the correct date. I was off . . . way off. I was under the impression that Hong Kong had fallen only one week after the war started. Don't ask me where I dreamed that up, but I was firmly convinced.

Anyway, here's the actual result - first two days the 38th inf Bombarded, assisted by light air support. Third day, joined by the 1st heavy art and the 19th engineer; still Bombarding. I can't remember when I switched to attack, but do recall that HK fell on day seven.
bs

[CobraAus]

Didn't I read somewhere that there was an extra patch from Andy's Map to make the offmap bases work? If so, I ain't got it.

now you have its in a PM to you

Cobra Aus

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

I can't load troops at "Middle East" base. May be my bad - Didn't I read somewhere that there was an extra patch from Andy's Map to make the offmap bases work? If so, I ain't got it.

I have done some more testing with the ME base - testing that I should have done previously. The way that the base is currently set up does not work. LCUs and ships are not only prevented from entering the base, which was what I intended, but they can never leave either, which was definitely NOT intended (they can check out any time they like, but they can never leave). Yes, the base is invulnerable, but it is also a useless trap for Allied forces. So my attempt to make an invulnerable Allied base to represent the entire British/Commonwealth presence in the ME and Africa hasn't worked.

I tried to manipulate map data to make it impossible to attack the base, so that can be easily changed to return the terrain to normal.

The main reason I added the ME base was as an invulnerable backup base for the British, so now that this isn't possible, the question is: what to do about it?:

[ol]
[*] Remove the terrain hacks and make the base work normally but leave it as is.
[*] Remove the ME base entirely, leaving just one base there - Aden, which gets renamed to Middle East.
[*] Remove the entire Middle East area.
[/ol]

Also, should an attempt be made to make the base invulnerable anyway, or do we just suggest a house rule stating that the Japanese should not invade the base? The base could be made very hard to take by adding a huge static base force with large numbers of CD guns, troops, tanks etc., by making the terrain urban, adding max forts and so on. That all seems a bit artificial to me, but I also don't want to see the situation where the Japanese send a large invasion force on an end run around India early in the game and capture the base.

I am not in favour of simply removing the bases and reverting to having all British reinforcements arrive in India, as I would like to make two versions of this mod available - one using my normal map and one using the special map with the Middle East and Panama added, so that players will have a choice.

Thoughts?

[Don Bowen]

Andrew

Leave them both in - I love them. It would also be some work in the scenario to re-distribute the forces set to arrive at Middle East/Aden.

The posibility of the Japanese capturing the British entry point always existed. It's much hard to do with the Middle East. Perhaps enough of a base force to make invasion very difficult?

Don

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

obviously Matrix put an upper limit on fuel/endurance, just like the bombing altitude bug. Not sure what bozo thought to make the limits so close to what was actually used.
They should have set the bombing limit to 50,000ft not 32768.

Mike

32768 is a storage related issue - limit for a positive 2-byte integer. Hit it on endurance too. What really confuses poor old me is the fact that Kaga has a fuel value above 8000 (8208) and works fine. I wonder if there's special code lurking around somewhere??

Damn - that "Quote" button is right next to the "Edit" button, isn't it!

[CobraAus]

I have done some more testing with the ME base - testing that I should have done previously. The way that the base is currently set up does not work. LCUs and ships are not only prevented from entering the base, which was what I intended, but they can never leave either, which was definitely NOT intended (they can check out any time they like, but they can never leave). Yes, the base is invulnerable, but it is also a useless trap for Allied forces. So my attempt to make an invulnerable Allied base to represent the entire British/Commonwealth presence in the ME and Africa hasn't worked.

whats the actual problem Andrew thats preventing the ships movement
just had a look at this it looks like the base is on a land hex only not a coastal hex
with a port setting of 0/0 could this be all thats wrong - change hex to coastal
there seems to room for the TF's to actualy move if I remember we had this problem early on in one of the Indian ports
Oh and leave base's in game
Cobra

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: CobraAus
whats the actual problem Andrew thats preventing the ships movement
just had a look at this it looks like the base is on a land hex only not a coastal hex
with a port setting of 0/0 could this be all thats wrong - change hex to coastal
there seems to room for the TF's to actualy move if I remember we had this problem early on in one of the Indian ports
Oh and leave base's in game
Cobra

I noticed the land/coastal part and fixed it, but it didn't help. It seems that the game calculates 'backwards' from the destination hex (or maybe the next hex) when calculating supply paths for land units, so even though the terrain should allow an LCU to move from the Middle East base to the Aden base the game will not let it move, possibly because it cannot trace a movement/supply path back into the Middle East hex. A similar problem prevents naval TFs from leaving the hex as well. I'm still testing it but I don't think it can be corrected.

So it seems that what we need to do is beef up the defences of the Middle East base considerably and leave it at that. How does that sound?

[CobraAus]

It seems that the game calculates 'backwards' from the destination hex (or maybe the next hex) when calculating supply paths for land units

have you tried placing the base at 1,2 instead of 2,2 putting the 2 bases 1 hex further apart
(thinking thinking there has to be away around this)

by the way are you the only group member with the abilty to modifie the PWhex file in other words did you come up with program to do if so is posible to get a copy I have lot more time
and could fiddle it to death (and this would only be for trouble shooting not to produce conflicting dat files)
Cobra Aus

[Hipper]

Andrew re middle east Base defense

have you considered just putting a very large static base force there to prevent the possibility of kapanese invasion

cheers

[Captain Cruft]

I say leave the Middle East base as "normal". Surely sensible players will have house rules about it.

[Lemurs!]

Frack!

Bstarr, the Ki102b production is my fault.

Don can you change Tokyo location, Ki102b production of 32 to
Ki57II production at 20?

Thanks

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

Don can you change Tokyo location, Ki102b production of 32 to
Ki57II production at 20?

Thanks

Yes Sir - it done!