This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!
And speaking of new game.
How could this happen? To make it worse a Philippine crewed PT gets the kill! I thought this last patch neutered the PT's and my invasion would be safe?
This game must be broken! Wahhhhhhhhhh! He sunk my destroyer! Wahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![:D][:D][:D]
Ah, you misunderstood. They're only nerfed when they're your PT's! [:D]
Seriously, guys, we're getting enough reports now that show PT's are doing damage, they just have low odds for success. Feels like they got it pretty close to the mark if not dead on. What do y'all think?
I had a nighttime combat under the latest patch with PT boats near Guadalcanal, and the result was in my mind pretty fair.
3 PT boats attacked 2 unescorted merchies in the night phase. All closed to launch torps, all fired torps, and 3 torpedoes hit, two on one ship, and one on the other. This seems reasonable to me.
As for combat with destroyers, I think some losses on both sides should be expected. After all, despite their impressive speed, I think it should be remembered that a destroyer is still a BIG boat. It is still a pretty big target, just a fast one. At night, it must be very difficult to spot torpedo wakes, even with the compressed gas ones. Not to mention that in avoiding one torpedo you might steer directly into the path of another. At night, PT boats should have a reasonable edge.
Night Time Surface Combat, near Port Moresby at 98,130, Range 1,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA Nachi
CL Tama
DD Hatsuharu
DD Asagao
DD Karii
Allied Ships
PT-36
PT-37
PT-44
PT-45
Reduced sighting due to 25% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 25% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
BB Mutsu engages PT-45 at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Asagao engages PT-45 at 3,000 yards
Task forces break off...
Not too bad. [;)]
I had a like engagement with a Jap BB & escorts vs. my 6 PT boats. It said both TFs sighted each other
at 12,000 yards at night in moonlight. It seems to me that something as BIG as a BB would be spotted
long before a TINY PT boat. Looks like reality once again has taken a back seat to AI programming !!!!
Night Time Surface Combat, near Port Moresby at 98,130, Range 1,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA Nachi
CL Tama
DD Hatsuharu
DD Asagao
DD Karii
Allied Ships
PT-36
PT-37
PT-44
PT-45
Reduced sighting due to 25% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Overcast Conditions and 25% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
BB Mutsu engages PT-45 at 1,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
DD Asagao engages PT-45 at 3,000 yards
Task forces break off...
Not too bad. [;)]
I had a like engagement with a Jap BB & escorts vs. my 6 PT boats. It said both TFs sighted each other
at 12,000 yards at night in moonlight. It seems to me that something as BIG as a BB would be spotted
long before a TINY PT boat. Looks like reality once again has taken a back seat to AI programming !!!!
JIM
Not really, I have been at sea at night and if it weren't for the lights, we never would have seen ship. Another thing to consider, you can see further the higher up you are so a BB would have a visible horizon greater than the PT boats. Once the PT's knew they were spotted, I hope they bailed out instead of pressing the attack.
It seems to me that many players think their PT's will start sweeping the IJN from the seas on the first day of the game. Sinking something everytime the PT's are in action. Maybe in Hollywood but not in RL.
Lets give this patch some time.
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Seriously, guys, we're getting enough reports now that show PT's are doing damage, they just have low odds for success. Feels like they got it pretty close to the mark if not dead on. What do y'all think?
Fillipino PT boats close on another Jap convoy unloading but are spotted and the targets escape:
Day Time Surface Combat, near Vigan at 80,73, Range 12,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
PB Chohakusan Maru
xAK Daisin Maru
xAKL Misaki Maru, on fire
Allied Ships
PT-41
PT Q-111
PT Q-112
PT Q-113
Also, a bit off topic, but an absolutely crushing mid ocean daylight intercept by the Dutch. [:)]
Day Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 71,86, Range 11,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
xAK Thames Maru, Shell hits 27, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Nansin Maru, Shell hits 37, and is sunk
xAKL Nichizui Maru, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
xAKL Nissen Maru #2, Shell hits 1
xAK Nittei Maru, Shell hits 40, and is sunk
xAK Ryugi Maru, Shell hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Saiko Maru, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
xAK Sanuki Maru, Shell hits 6, heavy fires
xAK Shoho Maru, Shell hits 34, and is sunk
xAK Taibun Maru, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
xAK Tatsuho Maru, Shell hits 22, and is sunk
xAK Tone Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Uyo Maru, Shell hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Ume Maru, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Yuzan Maru, Shell hits 25, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Yubari Maru, Shell hits 19, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Akita Maru, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
xAKL Ayaha Maru, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
xAKL Awa Maru, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
xAKL Heiyo Maru, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
xAKL Higashiyama Maru, Shell hits 15, and is sunk
xAKL Tonegawa Maru, Shell hits 21, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Yagi Maru, Shell hits 6
xAK Okuni Maru, Shell hits 9, heavy fires
xAKL Hachirogata Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Azuchisan Maru, Shell hits 23, and is sunk
xAK Amakusa Maru, Shell hits 42, and is sunk
xAKL Fukuyo Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire
Allied Ships
CL Java, Shell hits 1
CL De Ruyter, Shell hits 2
DD Banckert
DD Van Nes
DD Witte de With
DD Evertsen
DD Kortenaer
DD Piet Hein
Japanese ground losses:
1995 casualties reported
Squads: 56 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 63 destroyed, 73 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 42 (22 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
In RL, shooting by eye, with sea state, fog, unknown reefs between you and the target, etc., you'd be dumb to launch outside 1000 yds.
The first URL is the OFFICIAL USN tactical doctrine document for PT boats in the early war. Those claiming that "it just makes sense" that a single boat, in daylight, would charge in on a target from miles away really need to read this document. Forget the movies and read the actual document the skipper would be held to.
These are good points. I have, over the past couple of years occiasionally researched this topic as I tried to reconcile the existence of the PT boat in the game, its historical role, and its historical effectiveness.
IMHVSBSEO (In My Humble Very Subjective But Slightly Educated Opinion) the PT boats needed to be neutered. Most of the "gallant action" of PT boats against surface targets in the popular literature is mythology. Research after the war by US Navy historians found that they were unable to verify almost all of the claims of sinkings of larger ships by PT boats. While offical Navy PT Boat Doctrine was for PT boats to attack capital ships and other vessels at night, the reality is that they were used principally for coastal patrol and interdiction. Essentially, they harrased ground units, boat activity, and logistics operations at night time.
PT Boat skippers were doctrinally timid. This is not to say that what they did was not aggressive or gallant, but rather they would avoid decisive engagement under all but the most exceptional circumstances. They were not designed to stand and fight. The PT Boat crews were heroic. They spent a lot of time on night patrol in a tropical environment routinely getting shot at. The reality is that during the war, they only sank a few ships, most of which were cargo vessels that haplessly wandered into their range alone and unsupported. They did sink a lot of barges. They did perform a number of night time special ops (landing raiders, rescuing troops, and landing supplies).
IMHO. PT Boats should almost always evade except if attacking lone vessels and small TF's of barges at night time.
I have been inputting my orders for the campaign game first turn since July 4, 2009. I'm getting close. In another month or two, I might be able to run the turn!
I combined the British and US boats at PI, appointed a leader with high aggression, sent him off to hunt IJ invasion fleets. Here is the results of that nights action.
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Vigan at 80,73, Range 12,000 Yards
Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Japanese TF begins to get underway
Allied Ships Reported to be Approaching!
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 35% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Unkai Maru #6 at 12,000 yards
PT Q-111 engages xAK Toyokawa Maru at 12,000 yards
PT-32 engages xAK Koyo Maru at 12,000 yards
PT Q-113 engages xAK Kosei Maru at 12,000 yards
Task forces break off...
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Night Time Surface Combat, near Vigan at 80,73, Range 11,000 Yards
Japanese Ships
xAKL Banshu Maru #56, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Choun Maru #21
xAKL Hinode Maru #20
xAKL Musashi Maru
xAK Tokusima Maru, Shell hits 8
xAK Kosei Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Yamagiku Maru, Shell hits 19, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Toyokawa Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Aki Maru, Shell hits 2, heavy damage
xAK Chowa Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
xAKL Jinsan Maru
xAK Koyo Maru, Shell hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Mansei Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Oridono Maru
xAK Soyo Maru, Shell hits 2
xAK Satsuma Maru
xAK Sugiyama Maru, Shell hits 1
xAKL Tensyo Maru
xAK Tsuyama Maru, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAKL Tohuku Maru
xAK Unkai Maru #6, Shell hits 4, on fire
xAKL Yosyu Maru, Shell hits 3, on fire
xAK Yasuteru Maru
2/ How many people here commeting have actually been at sea -in the tropics -on warships?
I've kept lookout in the phillipine seas -from the upper decks of a 4000 ton warship -and at 10000 yards - identifiction is really, really difficult -let alone from the bridge of a pt boat (which incidently I have spent a day on -at sea -in Manilla bay )
Add the usual sea mist -and things get trickier!
Although its got nothing much to do with the argument -here are my memories of the day at sea, on a genuine PT type vessel operated by the Philline navy -we went from Manilla, to Corrigador -spent the day on the island, then did a patrol before getting back near midnight.
1/ Noise! -that background noise in the movies is crap - in real life the beat/roar/growl -is overpowering, deafening -and it physically beats you down -never felt that way before even after years of machinery watchkeeping.
2/ Wet -you get wet -all the time
3/ Visibility -as discussed - I give 1000 yards max range in manilla bay
4/ breakdowns. We broke down 5 times -each and every time from clogged sea water strainers - any one who has sailed those waters knows what its like.
SO -you are in a single ship. Armed with stuff all. Torpedoes are priceless -and must not be wasted. Somewhere on the horizon -are they enemy ships? -buggard if we know - are you willing to attack all by yourself? - will you even cross the 20 odd K's in and out with out breaking down? Are you exhausted?.
All abstract things -but gee's -I think the game is going great -PTs are fine -they are not wonder weapons!
big seas, fast ships, life tastes better with salt
2/ How many people here commeting have actually been at sea -in the tropics -on warships?
I've kept lookout in the phillipine seas -from the upper decks of a 4000 ton warship -and at 10000 yards - identifiction is really, really difficult -let alone from the bridge of a pt boat (which incidently I have spent a day on -at sea -in Manilla bay )
Add the usual sea mist -and things get trickier!
Although its got nothing much to do with the argument -here are my memories of the day at sea, on a genuine PT type vessel operated by the Philline navy -we went from Manilla, to Corrigador -spent the day on the island, then did a patrol before getting back near midnight.
1/ Noise! -that background noise in the movies is crap - in real life the beat/roar/growl -is overpowering, deafening -and it physically beats you down -never felt that way before even after years of machinery watchkeeping.
2/ Wet -you get wet -all the time
3/ Visibility -as discussed - I give 1000 yards max range in manilla bay
4/ breakdowns. We broke down 5 times -each and every time from clogged sea water strainers - any one who has sailed those waters knows what its like.
SO -you are in a single ship. Armed with stuff all. Torpedoes are priceless -and must not be wasted. Somewhere on the horizon -are they enemy ships? -buggard if we know - are you willing to attack all by yourself? - will you even cross the 20 odd K's in and out with out breaking down? Are you exhausted?.
All abstract things -but gee's -I think the game is going great -PTs are fine -they are not wonder weapons!
