neutered PT boats post 1095/1096

[jackyo123]

I know some folks said the PT boats were too powerful pre 1095. I was one who thought they were ok - maybe a tad too tough, but nothing drastic.

Now, however, they really have lost their teeth -

witness:
captain has an aggression rating of 66. Competency levels in the mid 50's. Exp is 60.


Day Time Surface Combat, near San Fernando at 79,73, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAKL Hinode Maru #20
xAKL Musashi Maru
xAKL Rokko Maru
xAKL Toshi Maru #2
PB Akitsui Maru
xAK Konan Maru
xAK Somedono Maru
xAK Kosin Maru
xAK Kurohime Maru
xAKL Kikuryu Maru

Allied Ships
PT Q-113



Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 19,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
Both TF attempt to withdraw!
Range increases to 12,000 yards...
Both Task Forces evade combat



This group led by captain with 67 aggression, 50's/40's other factors.

Day Time Surface Combat, near Vigan at 80,73, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAKL Hinode Maru #20
xAKL Musashi Maru
xAKL Rokko Maru
xAKL Toshi Maru #2
PB Akitsui Maru
xAK Konan Maru
xAK Somedono Maru
xAK Kosin Maru
xAK Kurohime Maru
xAKL Kikuryu Maru

Allied Ships
PT-32
PT-41



Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 23,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards...
Both Task Forces evade combat


my PT's no longer launch their torpedoes, even at helpless merchies caught unloading. they are returning to port with nothing fired. Same behavior with nighttime attacks.


Have had this happen 7x now. They have completely lost their historically aggressive character, and i think they need to be adjusted slightly back up.

[bradfordkay]

I tend to agree here. I've seen a single PT avoid combat with a single xAK unloading in a port friendly to the PT.

It's not a gamebreaker, but it is somewhat irritating to see...

[Terminus]

Good Grief...[8|]

[Don Bowen]

Too Strong!

Patch

Too Weak!

Patch

Loop

[awadley]

I fully agree, if the contact is in a coastal hex and at night the PT's should attack, and not withdraw...Period!  Now daylight is another matter and withdrawal is warranted in clear weather.  PT boats worked best at night when that could hide under the cover of darkness and even better when the moon light was near zero.  But, they should have extra attack power in a coastal hex at night in the PI.
Gunner

Edit: this was in response to Bradfordkay and not Don Bowen or Terminus You guys are doing a great job, this is just MHO.

[Dixie]

I know the game is broke.  One of my ships was sunk by the AI.  And my Zero fighters are being shot down by Buffalo fighters.  You devs are all Allied fanboys! [:@]  Except in my game where I'm playing as the Allies, in that game you're Jap fan boys.

Egads people, get a grip.  A single PT boat attacking in daylight at 12,000 yards?  I wouldn't be surprised if mine didn't launch torps either.  The element of surprise has gone, the crew don't know what is hiding behind that fat cargo ship over there, it could be a destroyer for all they know.

[AirGriff]

Maybe put a few more boats in the mix. Historically, I believe they did attack missions in groups.

[Smeulders]

One or two PT-boats against 10 ships ? They are outnumbered and outgunned.

[awadley]

Yes, a single PT is not going to go out in the daylight, sorry I missed that line.  I use PT TF's of 4 to 6 PTs until they are all sunk, which is what happens now (by aircraft).
Gunner

[Canoerebel]

It seems like defensiveness is about equal to complaints at this point.  I know people may tire of complaints - especially since some complaints are over the top, unkind, just plain wrong, or all three.  But legit complaints are the only way we're going to feret out the problems wit the game and make it even better.  So don't jump on folks who are simply giving an opinion.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Dixie

I know the game is broke.  One of my ships was sunk by the AI.  And my Zero fighters are being shot down by Buffalo fighters.  You devs are all Allied fanboys! [:@]  Except in my game where I'm playing as the Allies, in that game you're Jap fan boys.

Egads people, get a grip.  A single PT boat attacking in daylight at 12,000 yards?  I wouldn't be surprised if mine didn't launch torps either.  The element of surprise has gone, the crew don't know what is hiding behind that fat cargo ship over there, it could be a destroyer for all they know.

But! But! I'm supposed to win every time with no losses! This game is broken! I demand it be fixed so I always win no matter what! Now get to work coding it so I always win! OR ELSE! [:'(]

[witpqs]

You're right about not jumping on folks. This example isn't legit, though. On the hand, if The Duke were commanding the boat, it would have attacked!

[:D]

[Sardaukar]

PT-boats are very likely to retreat from combat in daylight, unless they have surprise or visibility conditions favour them.

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 19,000 yards
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 23,000 yards

Not the conditions when PT-boats would attack ships (even most of AKs do have weapons and PT-boats are basically made of wood).

[Canoerebel]

I agree with both points.  From what I've seen in my game, PT boats are essentially worthless.  On the other hand they are such a small part of the game that I really don't care.  So I don't have a dog in this fight, yet.

Edited to green button myself.

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You're right about not jumping on folks. This example isn't legit, though. On the hand, if The Duke were commanding the boat, it would have attacked!

[:D]

Exactly, perhaps if people would say why the issue is legitimate then the devs would be able to help more. Just saying that the game is broke doesn't solve anything. For example... Why should your single PT boats be attacking Japanese transport fleets at 12,000yds instead of running away?

[Dixie]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I agree with both points.  From what I've seen in my game, PT boats are essentially worthless.  On the other hand they are such a small part of the game that I really don't care.  So I don't have a dog in this fight, yet.

But if somebody like bradfordkay voices an opinion, I sit up and take notice.  He's an old timer, unfailingly polite and civil, and knows the game.  He makes a point and is greeted with rolling eyes and other unhelpful comments.

Mine have done OK for themselves in night-time actions as groups. Nothing to shout about, but a couple of transports sunk around the Philippines is still a useful contribution.

[AW1Steve]

Has anybody thought about spending some pp's and putting agressive commanders in place? PT boat Captains were pretty much slected from colledge atheles (especially football) to ensure toughtness, good health and agressiveness. (or so I've read in a couple of places). You know that as Ensigns and JG's it certainly wasn't for their knowledge. [:D]

[Mike Scholl]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Too Strong!

Patch

Too Weak!

Patch

Loop

I was thinking the same things as you, Don..., until I saw, "Same behavior with nighttime attacks." PT's are basically "stealth weapons", and their chance of engagement should have visibility as a key component.

IF this is also occurring during night conditions, then additional "tweaking" is probably called for... Can any of the complainers provide examples of "night actions" where this is happening?

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

Has anybody thought about spending some pp's and putting agressive commanders in place? PT boat Captains were pretty much slected from colledge atheles (especially football) to ensure toughtness, good health and agressiveness. (or so I've read in a couple of places). You know that as Ensigns and JG's it certainly wasn't for their knowledge. [:D]

I agree, anyone with bit of intelligence would not serve as PT-boat Captain...[:D]

Anyways, PT-boats during the day are quite useless, until there is low visibility. At night one just may get lucky with them. They are useful to deter Bombardment and Amphibious TFs.

[Shark7]

Now on a serious note:

For PT boats that are completely useless they sure do seem to put a lot of torpedoes into my Cargo ships, into my destroyers, cruisers, BBs, etc ad nauseum. They are like the Japanese midget subs, they don't hurt often, but when they do its big.

During the war, the PT and MGBs were most effective at intercepting lightly guarded Japanese supply convoys, not in actions with heavy warships. So AE seems to have it just right in my book.