New to the game - Basic Questions

[rkr1958]

Jose, Thanks!

I am playing with LOS optional. So, with the US still neutral and with CW CP supply in place; but, no US supply line is this a bug?

[Orm]

Jose, Thanks!

I am playing with LOS optional. So, with the US still neutral and with CW CP supply in place; but, no US supply line is this a bug?

No bug.

The CW CP is enough to carry the supply as long as no enemy blocks it (multiple states at war can mess it up). Neutral US, or not, makes no difference. This as friendly is enough as this is defined as being on the same side (Allied side in this case). Note that the clarification says that you can not provide supply while neutral. The reverse would also be mentioned in a clarification if it was not allowed. In my humble opinion, that is.

Cut from RAC:

SiF option 11: (Limited overseas supply) you can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you
trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH. [Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be
from an inactive major power, but they do not necessarily have to be from a country at war with the same countries
with which the units being supplied are at war. However, if there are any enemy blocking units (CV, SCS, or aircraft
with air-to-sea factors) in the sea area which are at war with the units being supplied, then the convoy, TRS, and
AMPH can not be used unless they too are at war with the blocking units - Dec. 23, 2007, Jan. 18, 2008, and June
26, 2008]

Friendly [a major power or minor country on your side]

[rkr1958]

Jose, Thanks!

I am playing with LOS optional. So, with the US still neutral and with CW CP supply in place; but, no US supply line is this a bug?

No bug.

The CW CP is enough to carry the supply as long as no enemy blocks it (multiple states at war can mess it up). Neutral US, or not, makes no difference. This as friendly is enough as this is defined as being on the same side (Allied side in this case). Note that the clarification says that you can not provide supply while neutral. The reverse would also be mentioned in a clarification if it was not allowed. In my humble opinion, that is.

Cut from RAC:

SiF option 11: (Limited overseas supply) you can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you
trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH. [Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be
from an inactive major power, but they do not necessarily have to be from a country at war with the same countries
with which the units being supplied are at war. However, if there are any enemy blocking units (CV, SCS, or aircraft
with air-to-sea factors) in the sea area which are at war with the units being supplied, then the convoy, TRS, and
AMPH can not be used unless they too are at war with the blocking units - Dec. 23, 2007, Jan. 18, 2008, and June
26, 2008]

Friendly [a major power or minor country on your side]

Orm, Thanks!

After 10+ years, I'm still learning the rules.

[rkr1958]

No bug.

The CW CP is enough to carry the supply as long as no enemy blocks it (multiple states at war can mess it up). Neutral US, or not, makes no difference. This as friendly is enough as this is defined as being on the same side (Allied side in this case). Note that the clarification says that you can not provide supply while neutral. The reverse would also be mentioned in a clarification if it was not allowed. In my humble opinion, that is.

Cut from RAC:

SiF option 11: (Limited overseas supply) you can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you
trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH. [Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be
from an inactive major power, but they do not necessarily have to be from a country at war with the same countries
with which the units being supplied are at war. However, if there are any enemy blocking units (CV, SCS, or aircraft
with air-to-sea factors) in the sea area which are at war with the units being supplied, then the convoy, TRS, and
AMPH can not be used unless they too are at war with the blocking units - Dec. 23, 2007, Jan. 18, 2008, and June
26, 2008]

Friendly [a major power or minor country on your side]

Orm, a point of clarification if I may. I went back and read the section you quoted from the Rules as Coded book (page 16). I know, reading the actual rule(s) is usually a last resort for me; but should be the first.

Anyway, a literal reading of the portion of the rules that state, "Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be from an inactive major power" - would not allow the US while neutral to use LOC to supply their own bases. Unless I'm missing something in the clarification? However; I do know for a fact that the US while neutral can, and is, supplying oversea bases in Hawaii, the Philippines & Samoa.

[Joseignacio]

,,,

Friendly [a major power or minor country on your side]

Orm, Thanks!

After 10+ years, I'm still learning the rules.

Yeah, and I still had to check the definitions of some concepts of MWIF that can make you crazy. (RAW)

As I told you, if you were using LOS it could be argued that active countries not co belligerant could supply those in the same side. It depended on Harry's interpretation on wht a side is, and friendly is, whether including the "will be" allied or the currently allied. That was my doubt.

For me all that are on a side were all that were fighting a common foe.

However, as I checked yesterday, Harry considers that even though they may be currently neutral they are still a side:

Side [there are two sides in World in Flames, the Axis and the Allies]

So, yes, the CW and the USA are in the same side and the active ones can supply each other, no matter what

[Joseignacio]

Jose, Thanks!

I am playing with LOS optional. So, with the US still neutral and with CW CP supply in place; but, no US supply line is this a bug?

No bug.

The CW CP is enough to carry the supply as long as no enemy blocks it (multiple states at war can mess it up). Neutral US, or not, makes no difference. This as friendly is enough as this is defined as being on the same side (Allied side in this case). Note that the clarification says that you can not provide supply while neutral. The reverse would also be mentioned in a clarification if it was not allowed. In my humble opinion, that is.

Cut from RAC:

SiF option 11: (Limited overseas supply) you can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you
trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH. [Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be
from an inactive major power, but they do not necessarily have to be from a country at war with the same countries
with which the units being supplied are at war. However, if there are any enemy blocking units (CV, SCS, or aircraft
with air-to-sea factors) in the sea area which are at war with the units being supplied, then the convoy, TRS, and
AMPH can not be used unless they too are at war with the blocking units - Dec. 23, 2007, Jan. 18, 2008, and June
26, 2008]

Friendly [a major power or minor country on your side]

So, Orm, if CW can carry the supply, it is indeed a bug because the US planes are OOS in Greenland. Or I am being too thick this morning?

[Joseignacio]

(---)

Orm, a point of clarification if I may. I went back and read the section you quoted from the Rules as Coded book (page 16). I know, reading the actual rule(s) is usually a last resort for me; but should be the first.

Anyway, a literal reading of the portion of the rules that state, "Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be from an inactive major power" - would not allow the US while neutral to use LOC to supply their own bases. Unless I'm missing something in the clarification? However; I do know for a fact that the US while neutral can, and is, supplying oversea bases in Hawaii, the Philippines & Samoa.

This is IMO a bad wording of the RAW plus the adaptation of the Clarifications 2009.

RAW says (only):

SiF option 11: (limited overseas supply) You can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH.

In the 2009 clarifications this was the pertinent question and answwer :

Q: Playing with Limited Overseas Supply, can a neutral CP / TRS / AMPH provide supply to friendly units of other major powers?
A: No. Date 18/01/2008
Reason:
2.4.2 Option 11: (limited overseas supply) You can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you
trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH.
13.6.1: Neutral major powers can only contribute to convoy chains with other major powers if the rules
specifically allow it (see 5.1.1 and 13.3.2, option 9).
9.1: A neutral major power can't co-operate with any other major power (see 18.)
18.2: Units that don't co-operate cannot: 1. stack in the same hex, at any time that stacking limit apply; or
2. transport each other's units; or
3. draw supply from a source controlled by the other;
or"

So, IMO, the wording of the RAC combining both should have been:

"Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be from a different inactive major power..."

[rkr1958]

(---)

Orm, a point of clarification if I may. I went back and read the section you quoted from the Rules as Coded book (page 16). I know, reading the actual rule(s) is usually a last resort for me; but should be the first.

Anyway, a literal reading of the portion of the rules that state, "Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be from an inactive major power" - would not allow the US while neutral to use LOC to supply their own bases. Unless I'm missing something in the clarification? However; I do know for a fact that the US while neutral can, and is, supplying oversea bases in Hawaii, the Philippines & Samoa.

This is IMO a bad wording of the RAW plus the adaptation of the Clarifications 2009.

RAW says (only):

SiF option 11: (limited overseas supply) You can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH.

In the 2009 clarifications this was the pertinent question and answwer :

Q: Playing with Limited Overseas Supply, can a neutral CP / TRS / AMPH provide supply to friendly units of other major powers?
A: No. Date 18/01/2008
Reason:
2.4.2 Option 11: (limited overseas supply) You can only trace a supply path overseas if each sea area you
trace it through contains a friendly convoy, TRS or AMPH.
13.6.1: Neutral major powers can only contribute to convoy chains with other major powers if the rules
specifically allow it (see 5.1.1 and 13.3.2, option 9).
9.1: A neutral major power can't co-operate with any other major power (see 18.)
18.2: Units that don't co-operate cannot: 1. stack in the same hex, at any time that stacking limit apply; or
2. transport each other's units; or
3. draw supply from a source controlled by the other;
or"

So, IMO, the wording of the RAC combining both should have been:

"Clarification. The convoy, TRS, and AMPH cannot be from a different inactive major power..."

Jose, Thanks again!