2x3+ Team Side Game - BOTH SIDES

[Telemecus]

T002 Axis North

The Panzers drive forward to Leningrad but find the Soviet Union has now started to form a line at Pskow and to its south along the Velikaya river. To their north their flank is protected by lakes and swamps

An obstacle is only an obstacle if its defended

But with no Soviet troops there 6th Panzer division simply crosses the river connecting the main Lake Pskow to Lake Peipus and drives all the way across the swamps. Ahead of them is tank country completely outflanking the Pskow line, but getting supplies there will be tough.



Follow on infantry crosses the Dvina close behind in I corps - Model has been appointed leader to head the charge.

To see this turn in the AAR by the Axis North commander click here

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

T002 Axis North

The Panzers drive forward to Leningrad but find the Soviet Union has now started to form a line at Pskow and to its south along the Velikaya river. To their north their flank is protected by lakes and swamps

An obstacle is only an obstacle if its defended

But with no Soviet troops there 6th Panzer division simply crosses the river connecting the main Lake Pskow to Lake Peipus and drives all the way across the swamps. Ahead them is tank country completely outflanking the Pskow line, but getting supplies there will be tough.



Follow on infantry crosses the Dvina close behind in I corps - Model has been appointed leader to head the charge.

To see this turn in the AAR by the Axis North commander click here

Very good. Looking ahead, what is the earliest Turn that a supplied attack on the forts in front of Leningrad is possible?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Zorch
Looking ahead, what is the earliest Turn that a supplied attack on the forts in front of Leningrad is possible?

The very earliest I think was turn 6 or turn 7. Even last year there was a game on turn 9 I think? The fashion for the "Pskow Defence" make that more difficult now. Very early Leningrad captures I think have to be partly due to a Soviet players choice or mistake.

I have a take on this that I am not sure a very early capture of Leningrad is a good thing. If by a certain early turn you are really sure you have the time to isolate and take Leningrad, then for me that is the cue to to take it more slowly with the follow on infantry. You panzers should instead head south to Moscow. An early capture probably means you used your Panzer divisions to cross major rivers and in urban fighting instead - I am not sure capturing Leningrad a few turns earlier is worth that.

T002 Axis Rail Repair in North and Centre

[Telemecus]

T002 Axis Centre

[Telemecus]

T002 South

South Axis Commander
Difficult situation. Checkerboard in combination with broken pockets... I'll have to work on restoring the situation as much as I can. The road in the center, however, is free up to the Dnepr... Focus resources to the North (race to Leningrad and Moscow...)

von Knobbelsdorf is appointed to replace one of the two "bad" German Panzer corps commanders. And 14th Panzer division fights a corridor south to the Rumanian border. The Soviet troops on the Rumanian border will now move first during turn 2 rather than after the Germans in turn 3.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Zorch
Looking ahead, what is the earliest Turn that a supplied attack on the forts in front of Leningrad is possible?

The very earliest I think was turn 6 or turn 7. Even last year there was a game on turn 9 I think? The fashion for the "Pskow Defence" make that more difficult now. Very early Leningrad captures I think have to be partly due to a Soviet players choice or mistake.

I have a take on this that I am not sure a very early capture of Leningrad is a good thing. If by a certain early turn you are really sure you have the time to isolate and take Leningrad, then for me that is the cue to to take it more slowly with the follow on infantry. You panzers should instead head south to Moscow. An early capture probably means you used your Panzer divisions to cross major rivers and in urban fighting instead - I am not sure capturing Leningrad a few turns earlier is worth that.

Logical, given the armor losses and opportunity cost.

[EwaldvonKleist]

I had two 1.10.00 games in late 17/early 18 with Leningrad taken in T9 or T10. But that was with old HQBU costs=>HQBU spam. Both times the Red army had been broken before so the river crossing and the city were not defended too much, although it still took a major assault. Early capture of Leningrad also was more a byproduct then a goal in itself and if the Red army is still intact I agree with Telemecus/would consider the right hook.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: Zorch
Looking ahead, what is the earliest Turn that a supplied attack on the forts in front of Leningrad is possible?

The very earliest I think was turn 6 or turn 7. Even last year there was a game on turn 9 I think? The fashion for the "Pskow Defence" make that more difficult now. Very early Leningrad captures I think have to be partly due to a Soviet players choice or mistake.

I have a take on this that I am not sure a very early capture of Leningrad is a good thing. If by a certain early turn you are really sure you have the time to isolate and take Leningrad, then for me that is the cue to to take it more slowly with the follow on infantry. You panzers should instead head south to Moscow. An early capture probably means you used your Panzer divisions to cross major rivers and in urban fighting instead - I am not sure capturing Leningrad a few turns earlier is worth that.

This particular game it behooved the German to encourage the Soviet to invest as much as possible in the defense of Leningrad. That is because it took to turn 11 to cut everything off the more in the Kessel the better ... such a move is doubtful to ever occur again.

[Telemecus]

For information only - attached 2x3+ 002 Axis North-Centre Boundary

[Telemecus]

For information only - attached 2x3+ 002 Axis Centre-South Boundary

[Telemecus]

For information only - Axis Team allocations for turn 2

(although one learning point we were starting to get was that splitting the air between three ground commanders without someone who could be an overall air commander was not working)

[Telemecus]

2x3+ 002 Axis Points Spend

[Beria]

T002 Soviet

Soviet Deputy Supreme Commander
The enemy has continued its vicious and unrelenting advance throughout all fronts. In the last four days since the start of the Hitlerite invasion of our Motherland, STAVKA reports losses of 183,712 casualties, 1907 guns, 1986 tanks and vehicles... Our estimation of the Axis losses are 23,262 killed or wounded for 252 guns and 156 tanks and vehicles...

a) Do NOT borrow troops of any kind without their written permission
b) Troops must be allocated to start building forts in Moscow and Leningrad - both East of Pavlovo and in Osinovets. Those hexes are #1 VITAL to buildup.

We have a new air commander!

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Beria

Soviet Deputy Supreme Commander
a) Do NOT borrow troops of any kind without their written permission

@Sardaukar - sounds familiar? [:D] fb.asp?m=4276597

[Beria]

T002 Soviet North

Soviet Deputy Supreme Commander
The enemy has decided to go around Pskov and the Velikiya River by dividing its panzer forces by going North, while maintening pressure toward Pskov. Doing so, they has overtaken the swamps north of the city between the Pskov and Peipus lakes. This directly threatens the rear of the Northwestern Front troops in Pskov.

However, Defence of Pskov must be maintained for now, as surrendering this area too soon to the Fascists would be deadly for our forces in the North...

[Beria]

002 Soviet Janisjarvi is still frozen - but units can be railed in

[Beria]

T002 Centre

Soviet Centre Commander
Vatutin has taken over 20th Army. Tobulkin has taken over 13th Army.

Soviet Deputy Supreme Commander (To myself)
The landline MLR is to hold the favourable ground.... Half of 24th Army is to position itself along the upper Dnepr in front of Vyasma, to start building the first fallback line.

[Beria]

Soviet Centre Commander
- Pocketed troops in Central Front has spreaded enough to block every possible railway line of supplies to all Axis troops in front of the Dnepr.
- Zhukov and Western Front have successfully relocated away from enemy lines. Zhukov is reportedly still alive.
- A temporarily main line of defence has been build between Vitebsk and the Dnepr, while we have occupied the eastern bank of the Dnepr. Strongest presence in Orsha, Mogilev, and down Mogilev to Zlobin
- Strong points were build in the rear at Surazh, in the woods south of Rudnya, north of Chausy, and in on the Pronya swampbanks
- The whole 24th Army is in Reserve, building forts along the upper Dnepr in front of Vyasma.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Dinglir
I gave it up as the Soviet mobile divisions west of the Dnestr were still activated on turn two, even if the units right next to the border was not.

That surprises me. In all of my tests not only did the units on the border stay frozen, but also everything past Odessa and Nikolaev and almost to the Dnepr. Certainly everything west of the Dnestr stayed frozen for me.

I have only ever done this once (successfully) in anger however here tm.asp?m=4639282

Are you sure you were looking at units west of the Dnestr that were south of the Rumania freeze line - which for the Soviet side is different from the unfreeze trigger line for the Axis?

[Telemecus]

Attached picture embedded in post 182