Reverse movement command needed; German armor sections?

[Yoozername]

One of the things I am thinking about is having 'shoot'n'scoot' as a menu item is that it is not always present, and not allows allowable.  I do not like vanilla type menus. 

As I have said, it may be an option for an 'elite' type unit.  Just to throw out an idea, if the average status of a platoon is 'veteran', then there is a 25% chance that it will show up in the individual unit's menus.  Some may get it, some not.

For any platoon that has just withdrawn back, there may be another 15% chance of the unit doing this.  This can model 'memory' of targets seen.

There could be negative modifiers for being buttoned up, green, shocked, whatever

For certain weapon types (Marder type comes to mind), there may be an additional (additive) increase in this order being present.  This models the very good rearward vision the other crew memebers have and also the tendancy of a soft skin vehicle like this using discretion.  A morale check after each firing determines when its time to pull back.  If the first shot nails the enemy, there's a good chance that the Marder disengages.

I would like to caveat the need for a pull back position be one that is offering some cover.  Either behind a slope, trees, etc.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Yoozername
Two is the number of the World War the game is modeling. So the number is two. World War Two being the time period.

I looked through the entire thread and I don't see two being a WWII limit on the number of shots fired before scooting.
1. An example of Panzer against Canadians where two AP were fired and two HE. Then two more APs at the next Sherman to put it away. The only reason they seemed to stop is that the two remaining Shermans backed out of sight. So we have a total of 6 shots before any scooting.
2. The Tiger example is not a shoot and scoot as it is a move - halt - shoot - move again (this time 25m)- halt - shoot - then reverse i.e. scoot. How are you going to do that order ahead of time not knowing the Shermans would back away?

[Yoozername]

I LIKe RoBot Tanks..GiVE me RoboT tanKS..

Mobius: You seem like an OK guy but you just do not get it. The game needs flavor. You are trying beyond your technical and creative means.

Important Technical Note: Women love me. Everyone has been thinking about that, so I thought I might share the truth. Young girls, Old women, the whole bunch..they love me like bees on Honey.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Yoozername
Mobius: You seem like an OK guy but you just do not get it. The game needs flavor. You are trying beyond your technical and creative means.

I guess its no use discussing the Heisenberg uncertainty principle with me then.

[Yoozername]

Well I suppose that if we knew every afv vs afv engagement's outcome, we could reduce the uncertainty.
 
But you are trying to make some point about the number of rounds fired, and I have made a suggestion about how I would like to see it handled.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Yoozername
Well I suppose that if we knew every afv vs afv engagement's outcome, we could reduce the uncertainty.
But you are trying to make some point about the number of rounds fired, and I have made a suggestion about how I would like to see it handled.

It that's I and a few others have been saying that you can't design a small set of Order options that cover all possible actions that a tank could do in 80 seconds or even 40 seconds. The Orders menu would look like something from of a Chinese restaurant.
With Column A.
1. Move halt fire move.
2. Move halt fire fire move
3. Move halt fire move halt fire.
4. Fire move halt fire move.
5. Fire move halt fire fire move.
6 Move halt fire reverse.
And so on....

You want to have just enough options to be able to cover as wide a range of actions as possible but still keep it simple. A real complicated set of actions, even though in real life might take under 40 seconds, would have to be done with more than one Order - Reaction combination over several turns.

The suggestion of a reverse reaction is a good one. It's simple and it expands the range of possibilities greatly. Wait for the expansion with that added and see how works out.

Heisenberg comes into the picture here because the more precise you try to define your game play the less overall like reality it eventually becomes. i.e. there's a point where precision and accuracy part company.

[Prince of Eckmühl]

If the idea behind introducing REVERSE into the reaction phase is that it would afford an AFV an opportunity to seek a less-compromising position, then shouldn't RUSH be considered as well, or at least MOVE?

Safer ground isn't ALWAYS located to the rear: http://www.gamesgnome.com/arcade/sg/

The ducks are all moving forward; that's where they find cover.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Prince of Eckmühl
If the idea behind introducing REVERSE into the reaction phase is that it would afford an AFV an opportunity to seek a less-compromising position, then shouldn't RUSH be considered as well, or at least MOVE?

I dunno. You could make a case either way.
I did some reseach on tank stopping distances.

[Yoozername]

I would not want automatic reverse commands in all situations.
 
An example of a no-reverse situation (given that others in the platoon might be able to do it), is a buttoned afv that still has forward moving waypoints, does not see any enemy and is out of radio control.
 
 
I do not want generic robot tank behaviour.
 

[madorosh]

ORIGINAL: Yoozername

Interesting shoot and scoot example. Note the ricocheting AP round also.

http://www.deutschesoldaten.com/personal/knolle.htm

(4) All that gunfire created a haze. When it got thick enough, I crawled back towards the houses behind me and dug my second foxhole in a woodshed. I could now look out without being seen, and I had protection against direct hits from mortar fire. The shooting got heavier again when I noticed two Sherman tanks, (6) and (7), advancing and rapidly firing. My wood shed was turning into a sieve. Suddenly, a German tank commander tapped me on the shoulder and asked where the enemy tanks where. I shouted at him to get down, but he didn't budge. He just stood there and repeated his request. Knowing that we wouldn't survive the next 5 seconds up there, I did climb out of my foxhole and in the smoke and haze pointed the Shermans out to him. He immediately ran off and I, even faster, dropped back into my hole.

(5) A few minutes later, a big German Tiger tank roared up next to me, stopped and instantly fired a round at Sherman tank (6). However, the shell, grazing the ground, ricochet off with a spine chilling screech. Yet, it must have also glanced off the Sherman tank, because I now saw its crew emerge from the conning tower and flee. I fumbled for my dirt-covered rifle, but was too slow to get off a shot. The German tank now advanced maybe 25 m, a second round flashed across and the Sherman tank blew up. The crew may nevertheless have gotten killed nearby. Obviously aware of the danger, the other Sherman tank was by now in full retreat. But our tank commander also didn't wait around to see who might now shoot at him. He too got into reverse and barreled back down the incline, heaven help who was in his way. The tank action apparently defeated the Scottish Cmd Black Watch (Essex Scottish, 5th Brigade) attack on the 8th and 9th. (6) and (7) shows Sherman tank positions in the attack as described above. - (8) We were told not to direct fire at the house of Dutch doctor Van de Kar, J.P.M., because Canadian and German wounded in addition to civilians were there in the doctor's care.

It tickles me that you keep quoting my websites. The context of this quote is probably not known to you; for example, Herr Knolle was with Battle Group Chill, and I am not aware of any Tiger units in that area at the time. He was probably referring to a StuG if that is the case. It does make one wonder about the accuracy of other parts of this veteran's account, which was written 50 years or so after the action described.

[Yoozername]

It tickles you?  Did you giggle into your small cupped fingers and wet your panties? 

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Yoozername

It tickles you? Did you giggle into your small cupped fingers and wet your panties?

[8|]

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[Yoozername]

For a REAL Giggle, go to Joe Shaw's Peng Podcast page.   There is an interview with Dorosh. 
 
Evidently, he is some sort of dwarf.  There is a picture of him standing next to a WWII jeep.  It looks like a deuce-and-a-half next to him.  There appear to be 2 bored mannequins in the jeep also.
 
The interview reveals Dorosh to be a droll little character.  He mewls along with pathetic canned-banter that is excruciating to listen to.  He caps off the worst podcast with a bizarre compliment of Shaw with a reference to Johnny Carsan. 
 
His voice seems to match his boring persona to a T.  He sounds like a eunuch with no self-esteem at all.
 
Its so bad that even the normally cruel Peng crowd has chosen to ignore it (even though Dorosh, an attention starved loser) craves that sort of thing.
 
If you despise the very thought of a geek like Dorosh, I highly recommend that you download that podcast.

[Erik Rutins]

That will be enough of that, thanks. This forum doesn't exist to trade personal insults.