Rise of the Sheep! JocMeister(A) vs. Obvert(J)

[Bullwinkle58]

I thought Japan just attacks first. Why would movement set to zero? They'd cross and the code would wait for the combat phase checks, right? If the Japanese had already left, no combat.

I think.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I thought Japan just attacks first. Why would movement set to zero? They'd cross and the code would wait for the combat phase checks, right? If the Japanese had already left, no combat.

I think.

But the a unit that transits a hex closes the hexside for the other player. When that happens the unit(s) trying to transit gets their movement reset to zero. Interesting question here is what happens if both sides transits at the same time. I think I will test this. Didn´t find out (thankfully) in the game! [:D]

[JocMeister]

A very good turn for the allies with only one bad event.

Here is a teaser! [:)]

EDIT: Amazingly only three aces are lost!! (9 kills, 6 kills and 5 kills). I so seldom fight over my own territory and troops I have forgotten how many pilots get saved. Throughout the day only 19 pilots are KIA and 0 MIA. 50 Pilots WIA though. But thats hell of a day I would say! [:)]

1 new triple ace
3 new double aces
27 [X(] new aces (2 "ace in a day")

[Speedysteve]

Sheesh. Your 'daily' air battles are just a slugfest with fantasy Jap production levels to be able to match if not out produce the Allies (I wont rant about that here though) [;)]

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Sheesh. Your 'daily' air battles are just a slugfest with fantasy Jap production levels to be able to match if not out produce the Allies (I wont rant about that here though) [;)]

I bet you are pretty happy now that your opponent completely crashed his economy? [:D]

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Thailand - 25th November -44[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

A very important day in Thailand. Perhaps the most important day of the war? My chindit BDE crosses into the hex of Erik superstack thus closing the hexside to the SE. As can been seen in the screenshot there are now only 3 hexsides open for Erik to move out. As can also be seen in the screenshot Erik has started moving to the East. I anticipated this a long time ago and sent another Chindit BDE to close that hex. I have a two days head start on Erik to close that hexside and definitely surround the superstack.

Even if he somehow miraculously make it before my Chindits I have parts of the main force coming down the road and will arrive in time to halt his force.

This is without a doubt the greatest allied achievement and Japanese defeat in the war so far. To call it a catastrophic Japanese defeat is not an overstatement! [:)]

Here is a list of the Japanese units trapped:

Defending force 201409 troops, 2584 guns, 3059 vehicles, Assault Value = 6445 [X(]


2nd Guards Division
55th Division
39th Division
18th Division
16th Division
5th Division
21st Division
2nd Tank Division
3rd Tank Division
2nd Division
38th Division
33rd Division
75th Infantry Brigade
22nd Tank Regiment
24th Ind.Mixed Brigade
79th Brigade
29th Ind.Mixed Brigade
1st Ind.Mixed Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
38th Field AA Battalion
2nd Army
20th AA Regiment
3rd Medium Mortar Battalion
1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment
33rd Road Const Co
2nd Medium Mortar Battalion
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
68th Field AA Battalion
21st AA Regiment
39th Field AA Battalion
10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
70th Field AA Battalion
25th Army
2nd Area Army
2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
34th Field AA Battalion
43rd Const Co
52nd Field AA Battalion
3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
43rd Ind.AA Gun Co
50th Field AA Battalion
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
49th AA Machinecannon Company
56th Field AA Battalion
10th RF Gun Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
17th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
11th RF Gun Battalion
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
69th Field AA Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
51st Field AA Battalion
32nd Field AA Battalion
40th Field AA Battalion
41st Ind.AA Gun Co
14th RF Gun (Pack) Battalion
115th AA Regiment
27th Fld AA Gun Co
1st RF Gun Battalion
28th Army
8th RF Gun Battalion
5th Mortar Battalion
11th Mortar Battalion
1st Air Defense AA Regiment
15th Army
Burma Area Army
1st Art.Mortar Regiment
14th Mortar Battalion
19th Army
2nd RF Gun Battalion
7th JAAF Base Force

Erik will probably "suicide" them as soon as they are 100% cut off. But this time he won´t be able to fly out fragments. So they will have to be bought back and reformed. And the best part is they will return with crap EXP. [&o]

There were also some fierce air battles over Thailand as Erik struck out from Bangkok. This time he avoided my exposed stack and went for the flank guards. I had no LRCAP over them but damage was negligible and mostly not noticeable at all. [:)]

The allied air force will now be given a few days rest. After that we will deal with Bangkok. Its the only airfield larger then 3 in the region that Erik has. With that removed so is Japanese airpower in the whole region.

This day of course started a whole chain of events as the allies scramble to exploit the situation. More on the allied plans tonight if I find the time! [:)]

There were also some crazy fighting over Luzon this turn. Coming in a separate update tonight.

Here is a screen showing the dire Japanese situation!

[aztez]

Excellent stuff at Thailand. Your opponent is not going to be happy soon!

[Grollub]

Jocmeister,

Nice AAR [:)]

You wrote in the map inlay above; "My ground bombardments will keep Eriks stack in combat mode".

I may be out on thin ice concerning this, but I think I'm correct. I may also kick in an already open door and if so disregard ([;)]) everything below.

Since ground combat resolution (including bombardment) resolves after the movement phase, this means that Erik could put his superstack in move mode and resolve it using that movement rate. When your bombardment kicks in, that would mean causing higher casualties to his stack and switching their op mode to combat. Their movement has already resolved though.

Bottom line; If he's willing to take a higher casualty rate from your bombardment to get out of the hex he could put them in move mode every turn.

Fix; Use ground bombing aerial attacks, since that puts his units(s) in combat mode before movement resolution. But maybe that is what you meant with "ground bombardments"?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I thought Japan just attacks first. Why would movement set to zero? They'd cross and the code would wait for the combat phase checks, right? If the Japanese had already left, no combat.

I think.

But the a unit that transits a hex closes the hexside for the other player. When that happens the unit(s) trying to transit gets their movement reset to zero. Interesting question here is what happens if both sides transits at the same time. I think I will test this. Didn´t find out (thankfully) in the game! [:D]

It does close the hexside it transits, yes. I was picturing Allied (say) entering NW side headed SE, and Japan exiting the SE hexside on the turn. But if they both cross the same hexside in the same turn I think the Allies are indeed set to zero. My guess. Never, ever seen it happen. Would be like a Three Stooges skit. [:)]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Grollub

Jocmeister,

Nice AAR [:)]

You wrote in the map inlay above; "My ground bombardments will keep Eriks stack in combat mode".

I may be out on thin ice concerning this, but I think I'm correct. I may also kick in an already open door and if so disregard ([;)]) everything below.

Since ground combat resolution (including bombardment) resolves after the movement phase, this means that Erik could put his superstack in move mode and resolve it using that movement rate. When your bombardment kicks in, that would mean causing higher casualties to his stack and switching their op mode to combat. Their movement has already resolved though.

Bottom line; If he's willing to take a higher casualty rate from your bombardment to get out of the hex he could put them in move mode every turn.

Fix; Use ground bombing aerial attacks, since that puts his units(s) in combat mode before movement resolution. But maybe that is what you meant with "ground bombardments"?

Or, he could put them in Reserve mode, order movement, and have them immune (I think) to ground bombardment. I also don't recall that aerial bombing kicks a unit from Reserve back to Combat.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Grollub

Jocmeister,

Nice AAR [:)]

You wrote in the map inlay above; "My ground bombardments will keep Eriks stack in combat mode".

I may be out on thin ice concerning this, but I think I'm correct. I may also kick in an already open door and if so disregard ([;)]) everything below.

Since ground combat resolution (including bombardment) resolves after the movement phase, this means that Erik could put his superstack in move mode and resolve it using that movement rate. When your bombardment kicks in, that would mean causing higher casualties to his stack and switching their op mode to combat. Their movement has already resolved though.

Bottom line; If he's willing to take a higher casualty rate from your bombardment to get out of the hex he could put them in move mode every turn.

Fix; Use ground bombing aerial attacks, since that puts his units(s) in combat mode before movement resolution. But maybe that is what you meant with "ground bombardments"?

Tjena Grollub och tackar! [:)]

I don´t think you are on thin ice. I think you are absolutely correct. I did not think of that so thanks for the heads up. I guess I will have to continue bombing from the air. Sadly with all the AA there it hurt pretty badly when I do. I think Erik is flying in supply from time to time and whenever he does the AA takes a good toll on my poor 4Es. I have been losing 30/day at times. Thankfully not that much lately!

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Or, he could put them in Reserve mode, order movement, and have them immune (I think) to ground bombardment. I also don't recall that aerial bombing kicks a unit from Reserve back to Combat.

Is that possible!? [X(]

Please tell me they don´t move at "move rate" in reserve mode? Thats quite a serious exploit if that is possible? Sounds pretty dodgy to me even if they only move at combat move rate? To have them completely invulnerable from the air and ground just because they are in reserve mode.

Is this something people do? Sounds very "exploitie" to me.

[catwhoorg]

Yeah if they go at move rate, that has exploit written all over it.

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Tjena Grollub och tackar! [:)]

Inga problem [;)]

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Is that possible!? [X(]

Please tell me they don´t move at "move rate" in reserve mode? Thats quite a serious exploit if that is possible? Sounds pretty dodgy to me even if they only move at combat move rate? To have them completely invulnerable from the air and ground just because they are in reserve mode.

Is this something people do? Sounds very "exploitie" to me.

Straight off from the Manual (p186);

Units in Reserve in a hex that are defending have the following effects:
- Do not fire in combat
- Are not affected by bombardment attack
- Are not used in initial odds calculations
- Will not suffer casualties in the combat unless released – see below
- If attacked and the initial Assault odds are greater than 2:1 a unit in reserve may be added to the combat if the units Leader passes a LAND check. If the check is successful the units Op Mode to will change to Move and the reserve units combat strength will be added to the combat.
- A unit in Reserve Mode that is forced to retreat and has not been released will have its Op Mode changed to Combat and is retreated with the other units in the hex.
- Rest – Movement speed and combat strength are reduced compared to other OpModes. The recovery of Fatigue, Disruption, and Morale is increased compared to other OpModes.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Please tell me they don´t move at "move rate" in reserve mode? Thats quite a serious exploit if that is possible? Sounds pretty dodgy to me even if they only move at combat move rate? To have them completely invulnerable from the air and ground just because they are in reserve mode.

Is this something people do? Sounds very "exploitie" to me.

Not an exploit at all. It's in the code. Reserve mode has big drawbacks, as the manual outlines.

I think they move at Combat rate, although I'm still playing with this technique and not sure yet. The advantage, if there is one (and there may not be), is in a road transit where unseen and un-reconned forces can come into your hex as you move. The bombardment immunity is valuable then, for a turn, or maybe longer. There's no indication so far as I know Reserve makes them immune from aerial bombing. I'm experimenting with a lead LCU in Combat, and the followers in Reserve to see if it helps in China. Not much does help there. It's important to take a good look at the leader of the Combat LCU and make his skills as high as affordable for the check system.

I'm still looking at retreats and routs and their effect on casualties on units that started the defense in Reserve. Those units auto-shift to Combat for the retreat, but I'm not sure they get full impact of any rout rolls.

[JocMeister]

Grollub, Bullwinkle,

Solid info! Thanks guys! [:)]

EDIT: The problem here as I see it is that they do move at "move speed". I just tried it and "off road" an ID is moving at a rate of 5 in Jungle. When I switch them to "reserve" they still move at 5.

Is that really intended? Going by what Grollub posted from the manual they should get a penalty to movement rate?

EDIT2. Now that I reread what Grollub posted the line about movement seem to be about rest mode and not reserve mode?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Grollub, Bullwinkle,

Solid info! Thanks guys! [:)]

EDIT: The problem here as I see it is that they do move at "move speed". I just tried it and "off road" an ID is moving at a rate of 5 in Jungle. When I switch them to "reserve" they still move at 5.

Is that really intended? Going by what Grollub posted from the manual they should get a penalty to movement rate?

EDIT2. Now that I reread what Grollub posted the line about movement seem to be about rest mode and not reserve mode?

'Rest' mode is when there are no enemy in the hex. 'Reserve' mode is when there are enemy in the hex.

If they do move at the move rate you should post a save for Michael as that sounds like a bug.

[Grollub]

ORIGINAL: witpqs
'Rest' mode is when there are no enemy in the hex. 'Reserve' mode is when there are enemy in the hex.

Normally I would agree. But that "rest"-sentence is located under the "effects of being in reserve mode" in the manual. It doesn't put in any qualifiers on enemy units present or not [&:]

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Legaspi - 25th November -44[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

One of the biggest aerial battles of the war raged over Legaspi this turn. This is the first strike. A Sweep/LRCAP combo.

[size=1]Morning Air attack on Legaspi , at 82,82

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 14 NM, estimated altitude 35,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 49

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 24
P-38L Lightning x 13
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 41
F6F-3 Hellcat x 15
F6F-5 Hellcat x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 8 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-84a Frank sweeping at 31000 feet
[/size]

Personally I don´t use LRCAP for this purpose. My experience is that its counterproductive. This sweep is followed up by the first of many strikes. Here are some of them.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Legaspi at 82,82

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 116 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M3 Jack x 36
N1K1-J George x 30
N1K2-J George x 15
P1Y2 Frances x 18

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 14
P-38L Lightning x 12
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 36
F6F-3 Hellcat x 13
F6F-5 Hellcat x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M3 Jack: 7 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 10 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 3 destroyed, 9 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 2 [:(]
CA Vincennes
APA Dauphin

Morning Air attack on TF, near Legaspi at 82,82

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 36

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 9
P-38L Lightning x 7
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 17
F6F-3 Hellcat x 5
F6F-5 Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 13 destroyed

Here comes the first massed Frank "R" sweep. Considering my planes had been flying LRCAP for 3 days, the 3 minute detection time and that this was perhaps the 7th strike that day I would say it looks pretty underwhelming.

Afternoon Air attack on Legaspi , at 82,82

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 13 NM, estimated altitude 42,270 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 49

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 6
P-38L Lightning x 1
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 28
F6F-3 Hellcat x 9
F6F-5 Hellcat x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38J Lightning: 3 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-84r Frank sweeping at 38270 feet

Here is the last sweep of the day!

Afternoon Air attack on Legaspi , at 82,82

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84a Frank x 49

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 11
F6F-3 Hellcat x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed

No Allied losses

And then the worst strike of the day...by now my LRCAP is completely worn down

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Legaspi at 82,82

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 110 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 15
J2M3 Jack x 10
N1K1-J George x 36
P1Y2 Frances x 13

Allied aircraft
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 2 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 4 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
CA Vincennes
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk [:(][:(][:(]

Considering everything I can´t complain on the result. My LRCAP did admirable fighting off 200-300 Franks on Sweep. Obviously losing the PoW at this point in the war is a sad affair. She was struck by 3 TTs in Soerabaja harbour in 42 yet managed to not only sneak out under heavy Japanese aircover but sail all the way to Cape Town. She has been invaluable for me in 43 fighting the SOPAC. While the actual loss doesn´t mean anything at this point its still sad. At least she did what she was there for. Divert damage from the troopships.

[JocMeister]

[font="Verdana"]Air war[/font]
______________________________________________________________________________

The last couple of days has been one of the most bloody for the allied air force so far. I have lost almost 100 P47s in only a few days. This has to stop immediately. As can be seen in the screenshot my pools are again at critical levels.

To remedy this we will again switch down in intensity. Even taking twice my losses this will not affect Erik. He is producing around 1500 fighters per month. I simply cannot match that. So we will adapt by slowing down again and let the pools rebuild.

There are some positives though. The P51D is churning out at 120 per months. This will REALLY help and I already have 7 squadrons flying. I downgraded two P47 squadrons to P51 last turn. In 3/45 I will finally get some more P47s with the "N" model coming online with 100 per month! [&o]

The P47N is just crazy with a 460MPH max speed! [X(]

One of the most encouraging things lately is that I think its becoming more and more obvious that Erik is starting to suffer on the pilot quality front. Especially in the Legaspi strike this is quite clear. Erik has mentioned in a few threads on the forum he believes the P47 dominance is because of the height advantage. While this certainly contributes I don´t think he realises just how good the pilots are that are flying them. None of my P47 squadrons has a pilot under 75 EXP. A typical P47 squadron has most of its pilots between 75 and 90 with a few 90+.

During the Legaspi strike Erik had a clear height advantage with all his sweeps as my planes were positioned at 25k and lower. Yet he suffered more than twice the losses even late in the day. And most of the opposition were P38s and Hellcats. To me that looks like he is flying fresh pilots (50/70/70) and quite possible have run out of combat experienced pilots. At least I hope I´m right. I need some positives right now.

I hate when my pools get critical. Grrr! [:@]