Suggestion to All scn Designers...

[Przemcio231]

well i moved a base force or two but no combat units!![:@] any way i will fight the Japs!!!

[Onime No Kyo]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Hmmm I dont view that as gamey splitting a Bde into small chunks to garrison rear area bases seems sensible in India I do this after one after opponents did to me what Guest is doing. (I tend not to need to do it in Stock but in CHS there are so many rear area bases)

Lets not forget that the allies dont get masses of small units the way the Japanese do the ability to split a Division into 13 Bn sized forces for this type of work would be far more preferable as is done in War Plan Orange but you make do with what you have

Like I said, I'm just messing with you on the point that the game doesnt allow splitting into more than 3 units so you found a loophole.

[goodboyladdie]

It is still a gamey move taking advantage of the fact that the garrison units present IRL are not present in the game. The best thing to do, if Guest would remove his Paras, is to mass airpower and subs to stop his supply ships getting through to India. It is amazing how fast invasion forces can become isolated. You will also need to increase pressure elsewhere to try to force him to split his effort.

[Halsey]

The major design flaw is the non-activation of ground forces when a major nation is invaded.
The US invasion activation rule should have been applied to ALL the major nations not already at war with each other.

Why didn't they?
This has been stated before by the designers.
They didn't think anyone would do it.[:D]

Pretty lame excuse and poor forsight.
Only a ton of houserules can help.
It's hardcoded and will never be fixed.
It's one of the main design flaws that can turn this excellent simulation into a "Milton Bradley" game.[;)]

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

The major design flaw is the non-activation of ground forces when a major nation is invaded.
The US invasion activation rule should have been applied to ALL the major nations not already at war with each other.

Why didn't they?
This has been stated before by the designers.
They didn't think anyone would do it.[:D]

Pretty lame excuse and poor forsight.
Only a ton of houserules can help.
It's hardcoded and will never be fixed.
It's one of the main design flaws that can turn this excellent simulation into a "Milton Bradley" game.[;)]

Good point Greg.[&o]

[Przemcio231]

Come on i know that but at start i have some transport problems... as for his supply lines good point but his CV's with Zeros Shoot everything im throwing at them[:@] i use my subs but for now with no succes[:(] i even tryed to sortie BB's from Madras but from unknown reson they did not attacked his ships at landing spot and got clobbered by the KB while retireing[:@] well i will try something different this time

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Hi im playing CHS right now as allies and im shocked i moved no units from India to Burma and my opponent landed in India... the one thing that i think is Rediculus is that lack of some static weak Def Bn. In most Bases in India!!!! my oponent is droping parts of Parachute units all around india and i can't help it as i need units to slow the jap advance and my supply is being cut bu some 0 or 1 AV units drop into empty bases... with i cant garrison as i do not have the necessary forces...[:(] and that i thik is rediculus!!!! so a suggestion to all designer add Weak immobile Def. Bn or something in every base in India!!!!! to cut this nonsense... [:@]

Hi Przemcio231,

I have thought about this very problem before, but this is the first post I have seen detailing it happening.

As a matter of fact, there were a lot of troops in India to guard against this very thing - but since they did not fight in Burma they were never included in the WitP list of units.

The solution (IMHO) is two fold, we can add signifigant Infantry to all the Base Forces in India (an easy fix), and or we can find a decent list of units that stayed in India during the war - and add them as Static Units (a little harder to find the info on).

What do you guys think?

B

[patrickl]

Hi Big B

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Hi im playing CHS right now as allies and im shocked i moved no units from India to Burma and my opponent landed in India... the one thing that i think is Rediculus is that lack of some static weak Def Bn. In most Bases in India!!!! my oponent is droping parts of Parachute units all around india and i can't help it as i need units to slow the jap advance and my supply is being cut bu some 0 or 1 AV units drop into empty bases... with i cant garrison as i do not have the necessary forces...[:(] and that i thik is rediculus!!!! so a suggestion to all designer add Weak immobile Def. Bn or something in every base in India!!!!! to cut this nonsense... [:@]

Hi Przemcio231,

I have thought about this very problem before, but this is the first post I have seen detailing it happening.

As a matter of fact, there were a lot of troops in India to guard against this very thing - but since they did not fight in Burma they were never included in the WitP list of units.

The solution (IMHO) is two fold, we can add signifigant Infantry to all the Base Forces in India (an easy fix), and or we can find a decent list of units that stayed in India during the war - and add them as Static Units (a little harder to find the info on).

What do you guys think?

B

You are right. It is inconceivable that a big country like that did not troops in each major city. A few Jap para troopers are not going to find it easy to deal with millions of local population. [;)]

Pat

[Przemcio231]

Yes that would be good to add local defence forces to India as are those in China static units suitable only in Defence... any way i think its overall to easy for Japan to attack india as Jap players perfectly know how weak the Allies are there in this game

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Yes that would be good to add local defence forces to India as are those in China static units suitable only in Defence... any way i think its overall to easy for Japan to attack india as Jap players perfectly know how weak the Allies are there in this game

Ok, I think I will be working that in as a fix for my mod - don't know what the others will do.

B

[pauk]

to Przem and all who bitching about the gameyness:

Why don't include house rule ""para drops must untilize the entire unit, not fragments....if the fragment takes the empty base...then it must be reunited with its parent unit before the entire unit can be used again."", or why don't include house rule paras can't attack empty base? Wait, i've recalled one better house rule "paras must assault on well fortified bases". Or, even better, why we dont ban all paradrops???

Perhaps i'm stupid and don't know anything about military and strategy in general, but i always thought that purpose of the paras was airdrops in the rear of the enemy, cuting their lines of communications, capturing bridges, cuting them from resuplying with amo, men etc (what supply represent in WiTP)?

Now, if the enemy establish air-bridge and moving troops in that bases that is another point (or he used paras to cancel your units movement), but calling someone gamey just because he choosed good strategy is too harsh...

Sorry, but i don't see a problem here - except you gave up from Malaya too early? And you are playing the CHS - i assume with Aden, right? so what are you whining about - let him conquere India, you will be back - and you will have paras too[:D]

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: patrickl

You are right. It is inconceivable that a big country like that did not troops in each major city. A few Jap para troopers are not going to find it easy to deal with millions of local population. [;)]

Pat

Hi patrickl,

The tough part is going to be finding lists of units in the (British) Indian Army that didn't leave India. I have looked before, and found out that there were a lot of them - but so far I haven't found a list of unit names...[:(]

B

[Guest]

Anti-paras rules aplicated and Japan Army in India stop for five days.
I agree to pauk opinion, but I will conquer India without paras. Howgh and Banzai!
Sorry for my english again.

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: pauk

to Przem and all who bitching about the gameyness:

Why don't include house rule ""para drops must untilize the entire unit, not fragments....if the fragment takes the empty base...then it must be reunited with its parent unit before the entire unit can be used again."", or why don't include house rule paras can't attack empty base? Wait, i've recalled one better house rule "paras must assault on well fortified bases". Or, even better, why we dont ban all paradrops???

Perhaps i'm stupid and don't know anything about military and strategy in general, but i always thought that purpose of the paras was airdrops in the rear of the enemy, cuting their lines of communications, capturing bridges, cuting them from resuplying with amo, men etc (what supply represent in WiTP)?

Now, if the enemy establish air-bridge and moving troops in that bases that is another point (or he used paras to cancel your units movement), but calling someone gamey just because he choosed good strategy is too harsh...

Sorry, but i don't see a problem here - except you gave up from Malaya too early? And you are playing the CHS - i assume with Aden, right? so what are you whining about - let him conquere India, you will be back - and you will have paras too[:D]

Hi Pauk,

I don't think it's an issue about gameyness, so much as India wasn't really empty.

From what I have read, there were over a million Indian troops there in India, that stayed in India garrisoning it during the entire war (they lacked all kinds of heavy equipment though).

You don't want to stop the Japanese player from doing his best - but if there were considerable forces there (in India) that aren't in the game - you don't want to create an unrealistic situation either...IMHO anyway.

B

[Andy Mac]

Nepalese Army Forces on Indian Army Service (NOT Ghurka these are actual state forces lent as LOC troops and POW Guards)
 
Mahindra Dal Regt
Shri Nath Regt
Shamsher Dal Regt
Kalibahadur Regt
Shere Regt
Purnao Gorakh Regt
Bairab Nath Regt
2nd Nepalese Infantry
 
ISF Forces
Alwar Jai Paltan
1st Bahawalpur Inf
4th Bahawalpur Lt Inf
Baria Ranjit Inf
2nd Baroda Inf
Bhopal Sultiana Inf
Bhopal GT Inf
Bikanir GT Inf
Bikanir Gangla Risala
Bikanir Sadul LI
3rd Gwalior Lancers
3rd Hyderabad (Nizams Own) Inf
Rajindra Sikhs
etc erc
 
And there are more....but some did serve in Divs already captured but a lot did not not to mention Garrison Companies provided for specific jobs not listed.
 
If unit names are all thats missing those I can provide [:D][:D]
 
I think the issue is 2 fold 1. a desire to concentrate the 10 Indian Base Forces at start into a few hexes to provide air support where they were actually supposed to be garrisons and 2. an increase in Indian Bases without an increase in garrison troops.
 
I do agree with pauk to some extent this is what paras were for if you are prepared the impact is minimal and you can retaliate in kind in 43
 
Andy

[Big B]

Andy that's great, any idea on their TO&E?

B

[patrickl]

Hi Big B

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: patrickl

You are right. It is inconceivable that a big country like that did not troops in each major city. A few Jap para troopers are not going to find it easy to deal with millions of local population. [;)]

Pat

Hi patrickl,

The tough part is going to be finding lists of units in the (British) Indian Army that didn't leave India. I have looked before, and found out that there were a lot of them - but so far I haven't found a list of unit names...[:(]

B

Andy Mac has come up with the list.[&o][:D]. Look forward to playing your mod soon.[:D]

Pat Lim

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: pauk

Perhaps i'm stupid

No "perhaps" about it...[:'(]

[Andy Mac]

Unfortunatley they were a real mix some with 18th Centuary Weapon some with WW1 vintage some armed better than regulars if the Maharaja was rich (so 18 pound howitsers all the way to modern 25 pounders, Lee Metfords to Lee Enfields, Maxims to Vickers to Brens)  it really varied.
 
Remember the Irqui army operated with better British equipment than the troops that defeated them because the Iraquis were able to afford better weapons !!! I think 8th Indian Div wanted to keep the Bren Guns and Carriers they took off the Iraquis because they had none of there own the Indian State forces were similarily equipped
 
Certainly no Tanks or AT Guns possibly
 
36 CW or Indian Light Sqds
36 Support
 
Is all I would give them if you give them 18 pounders or a few morters then they would suck them out of the active pool to the detriment of the active forces so on balance I wouldnt give them unless you could create some new devices
 
Andy

[Big B]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Unfortunatley they were a real mix some with 18th Centuary Weapon some with WW1 vintage some armed better than regulars if the Maharaja was rich (so 18 pound howitsers all the way to modern 25 pounders, Lee Metfords to Lee Enfields, Maxims to Vickers to Brens) it really varied.

Remember the Irqui army operated with better British equipment than the troops that defeated them because the Iraquis were able to afford better weapons !!! I think 8th Indian Div wanted to keep the Bren Guns and Carriers they took off the Iraquis because they had none of there own the Indian State forces were similarily equipped

Certainly no Tanks or AT Guns possibly

36 CW or Indian Light Sqds
36 Support

Is all I would give them if you give them 18 pounders or a few morters then they would suck them out of the active pool to the detriment of the active forces so on balance I wouldnt give them unless you could create some new devices

Andy

Thank you Andy, the TO&E sounds about what I would have thought. Now to figure out the best way to incorporate that.[8D]

B

EDIT: While we are at it - I want to ask the experts out there - are there major Japanese forces missing from the unit list?