Problem with AI's build routines

[dave74]

Another thing that may need tweaking with how the ai uses its pp's - ive noticed france dont buy any new units they just upgrade constantly - shouldnt some of their production be focused on expanding their armed forces ?

[Widell]

ORIGINAL: dave74
Another thing that may need tweaking with how the ai uses its pp's - ive noticed france dont buy any new units they just upgrade constantly - shouldnt some of their production be focused on expanding their armed forces ?

It weas reported somewhere else that the Soviet Union was spending PP's in strange ways. I guess that's one of the historical things to have in the game (moddable if possible) = by which I mean that each country should have a preference as to what to spend PP's on. Preference should possibly change by events or change of alignment, upgraded tech's etc.

[GJK]

ORIGINAL: dave74

Another thing that may need tweaking with how the ai uses its pp's - ive noticed france dont buy any new units they just upgrade constantly - shouldnt some of their production be focused on expanding their armed forces ?

My history may be faltered, but ISTR that the 'problem' with France was that they spent the time/money/resources on the Maginot Line instead of upgrading and building new units.

[dave74]

i agree GJK, but my point is that if all countries have a generic spending policy, they all may spend on upgrading and research at the expense of building a large enough army, air force and navy.

Widell, i agree with your idea of nation specific spending priorities, sounds good.

[comrade]

ORIGINAL: Widell

ORIGINAL: dave74
Another thing that may need tweaking with how the ai uses its pp's - ive noticed france dont buy any new units they just upgrade constantly - shouldnt some of their production be focused on expanding their armed forces ?

It weas reported somewhere else that the Soviet Union was spending PP's in strange ways. I guess that's one of the historical things to have in the game (moddable if possible) = by which I mean that each country should have a preference as to what to spend PP's on. Preference should possibly change by events or change of alignment, upgraded tech's etc.

This is moddable, but only to certain extent. In ai_data.csv you can set AI preferences for purchasing new units (ie build motorized army and air units, focus on submarines etc.), however the higher-level preferences ie. buy new unit vs replace losses vs upgrade level is not moddable at the moment.

Nevertheless, I can't see reason why AI should prefer buying new units to replacing losses. Buying a strength point of new unit is twice as much expensive as replacing strength point of the existing one. Plus, you have to move the new unit to front (takes time, SMP, etc.). PP-wise, buying new unit is very ineffective. Correct me if I'm wrong but it was exactly the same in SC and SC2.

The problem is that AI will never be as smart as human and will never be able to have the "big picture" e.g. calculate that it may pay off to sacrifice existing unit to get some larger benefit in the long run. AI has to rely on very simple rules.

[dave74]

comrade,

you make valid points and of course the ai is never going to be able to work out build preferences to that level.

I am starting to think that the lack of production points is resulting in less units for the ai which on such a large map is causing problems for It to replace its losses.

Im going to boost PP's in my next game to see what happens.

[comrade]

In 1.20 base PP in Moscov and Stalingrad been increased by 30. War Economy for Russia has been increased by 40%, so when the war breaks out they should have many more PP. And there's lend-lease from USA (another 50 PP per turn). This should help balance the barbarossa.

[dave74]

sounds good,

i am thinking of writing an aar for this, is it worth hanging back for the patch or will it be a while yet... ?

(sorry i had to try[;)])

[comrade]

1.20 will be released in about 2 weeks. 

[dave74]

thanks comrade,

think i will go ahead with an aar , but boost the ai's starting pps.

[doomtrader]

ORIGINAL: dave74

think i will go ahead with an aar ,

That would be awesome.

[comrade]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns


Which reminds me, how exactly can the US get its air groups to Europe? It’s too far for a transfer move and planes can’t board ships. Am I missing something obvious here?

That's a problem and it'll also be fixed in 1.20 (a small island added in Atlantic allowing to move air units to the UK in two hops)

[AZKGungHo]

Wouldn't it be better just to allow unlimited range for transfers and let it go at that? It seems like a lot of work, and does having just one little island mean you can only transfer one per turn? I would think there would be times when you'd want to do more than that.

[comrade]

ORIGINAL: AZ Gung Ho

Wouldn't it be better just to allow unlimited range for transfers and let it go at that? It seems like a lot of work, and does having just one little island mean you can only transfer one per turn? I would think there would be times when you'd want to do more than that.

This seemed most obvious, first thing I did, was increasing rebase range to 80 hexes. But when I saw British and French AI moving their air units to Poland in 1939 i realized it would create too much opportunity for such exploits. It was not that much work to make this one-hex stop in atlantic. It isn't perfect but it works quite well (I also made the AI aware of this island )

[Howard7x]

Im having a similar problem with the AI but at a city not mentioned yet. Please see screenshot below. Only way i can see to destroy it now is to get superior air forced to weaken it, then maybe the AI will attack.

[JMass]

ORIGINAL: Howard7x

Im having a similar problem with the AI but at a city not mentioned yet. Please see screenshot below. Only way i can see to destroy it now is to get superior air forced to weaken it, then maybe the AI will attack.

And there is another thing, it seems that units cut off but in a city with own supply can receive too many replacements (75% for 15 points of supply) so it could be very difficult to destroy them unless in only one lucky turn of combat.

[comrade]

Good point, I'll tweak that too.

[Howard7x]

Yes i dont quite understand the logic behind isolated units being able to reinforce themselves. Air drops would only allow for a limited amount of refitting. Its like an entire new army can be built in a city completely surrounded and cut off from its own forces. It does indeed require some tweaking.
 
All these niggly things aside, its a great game with alot of potential. Im enjoing it.