English is Easy?

[cdbeck]

Allow me to explain my statement:

The danish typically learn English very well, as do the Norwegians, Swedes, Netherlandians (??), et al. They learn is properly and not colloqiually.

I am American (despite what my location my cause one to assume, like Sarge). I grew up in rural America, where we learned English colloqiually (we say Warsh-ing-ton, instead of Washington, or Roo-unt instead of Ruined). We say "y'all" instead of "you all," which, either way, is a bit off. We ask "where are you/where is it at," which ends the sentence in a preposition and is incorrect grammatically. This has nothing to do with intellect. This has everything to do with regional dialect. To assert that people in the low countries speak English more properly than Americans is to say they start learning it nearly at the same grade level as Americans do, and without the vagaries of dialect, slang, and colloquial speak.

Mostly, I was trying to raz Terminus, because he is fun to raz and can take it. [;)]

Sarge's statment, assuming I was French, was purely offensive. America can't claim sole credit for WWI or WWII, and doing so insults the memories of millions of Europeans, and others, that lost their lives in those wars, serving honorably. Sure we have lots of surrender jokes for the French, but that relegates the history of France to one event, forgetting the following years were French resistance fighters fought a bloody, dirty, and terrifying guerilla war against the Nazis. Also, they <ahem> "fertilized" their own fields enough, as many losts their lives, their families, their homes, and all they owned to the Nazi advance.

So America can weather a little picking on (even by other Americans). We seem to pick on everyone else in our jokes, and pointed statements, and think that they should just suck it up because we "saved your bacon" or some other such nonsense.

SoM

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Treale

Geez Guys, I was just trying to interject a little levity in a post. I'm sure that all languages have their nuances! I'm not anti-european. I just like to rag on people regardless of who they are. I make fun of myself all of the time.

I worked with a lady from Trinidad who spoke "Proper" English and ragged on me about how I murdered the language. But it was all harmless fun. After six years we Americanized her, a little!!!

Treale, pal, I don't know if your post was particularly for me but I just want to be clear...I wasn't suggesting for one second your post was anti-european. I took it in the good humour it was meant. [:)]

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: Treale

Geez Guys, I was just trying to interject a little levity in a post. I'm sure that all languages have their nuances! I'm not anti-european. I just like to rag on people regardless of who they are. I make fun of myself all of the time.

I worked with a lady from Trinidad who spoke "Proper" English and ragged on me about how I murdered the language. But it was all harmless fun. After six years we Americanized her, a little!!!

Treale, pal, I don't know if your post was particularly for me but I just want to be clear...I wasn't suggesting for one second your post was anti-european. I took it in the good humour it was meant. [:)]

I realize that JD. I'm always kidding the guys at SSG because they spell their words wrong ...[:D] That's just me. No malice intended for anyone.

In response to SoM. The reason that the Danish learn English easily, is because a lot of England has Danish Ancestry ????? Well, maybe that's not the answer....

[Toby42]

On another sidebar,&nbsp;I never know what to call citizens of the UK. Are you Brits? Are you English, or are you UK's?

[SireChaos]

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

The danish typically learn English very well, as do the Norwegians, Swedes, Netherlandians (??), et al. They learn is properly and not colloqiually.

The way it was explained to me - by a Dane, no less - is that Denmark is a small country, there are relatively few Danes, (heck, Denmark, Sweden and Norway combined have less than 20 million people) and they HAVE to learn a foreign language to have access to more than their relatively small pool of culture.

Of course, a Swede commented on that: "As a Swede, I am obliged to say, the Danes try but fail." [8D]

I am American (despite what my location my cause one to assume, like Sarge). I grew up in rural America, where we learned English colloqiually (we say Warsh-ing-ton, instead of Washington, or Roo-unt instead of Ruined). We say "y'all" instead of "you all," which, either way, is a bit off. We ask "where are you/where is it at," which ends the sentence in a preposition and is incorrect grammatically. This has nothing to do with intellect. This has everything to do with regional dialect. To assert that people in the low countries speak English more properly than Americans is to say they start learning it nearly at the same grade level as Americans do, and without the vagaries of dialect, slang, and colloquial speak.

Actually, foreigners learn English, while you guys learn American. [;)]

Mostly, I was trying to raz Terminus, because he is fun to raz and can take it. [;)]

Sarge's statment, assuming I was French, was purely offensive. America can't claim sole credit for WWI or WWII, and doing so insults the memories of millions of Europeans, and others, that lost their lives in those wars, serving honorably. Sure we have lots of surrender jokes for the French, but that relegates the history of France to one event, forgetting the following years were French resistance fighters fought a bloody, dirty, and terrifying guerilla war against the Nazis. Also, they <ahem> "fertilized" their own fields enough, as many losts their lives, their families, their homes, and all they owned to the Nazi advance.

In fact, if anyone were to deserve the bulk of the credit of defeating the Nazis, it would be the Russian people - who, as it happened, "fertilized" their own backyard with 20 million of their own.

So America can weather a little picking on (even by other Americans). We seem to pick on everyone else in our jokes, and pointed statements, and think that they should just suck it up because we "saved your bacon" or some other such nonsense.

Indeed. Some Americans are even forgiving and generous enough to occasionally let me slightly disagree with them about some minor issues, and that only 60-odds years after you-know-what happened.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Treale

On another sidebar, I never know what to call citizens of the UK. Are you Brits? Are you English, or are you UK's?

Brit or Scot is fine for me [;)]

I'll even let you call me a European [:D]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort


Netherlandians (??)

I could be mistaken, but I believe the correct reference would be "Nederlander"

[Neilster]

Watching the Presidential debate today I was struck by something. I'd like to ask the Americans here whether they think it's actually healthy to be constantly told "America is the greatest country in the world" by your politicians and business leaders? Also, in exactly what way is this true?

Occasionally one of our pollies tries that on about Australia. You could make a reasonable argument for it (or for a few other countries), given our legal freedoms, economy, robust financial sector, standard of living, low crime rates and weather but it's generally greeted with derisive jeers. There's a healthy distrust of that sort of hubris here. Pride cometh before the fall, and all that.

This confidence seems to be America's greatest strength but perhaps also a bit of a flaw. It generates a "can-do" attitude that has achieved wonderful things but also means that sometimes Americans don't think there is anything to learn from others. Hence the initial hideous casualties in France in WW1 when American commanders ignored the hard lessons of the French and British.

Personally, I think the United States has generally been a force for good in the world but has developed a mythology that it is all about altruism when it has often been pragmatism, a forced hand or even self-interest.

Cheers, Neilster

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort


Netherlandians (??)

I could be mistaken, but I believe the correct reference would be "Nederlander"

Sounds about right....or Dutch

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Watching the Presidential debate today I was struck by something. I'd like to ask the Americans here whether they think it's actually healthy to be constantly told "America is the greatest country in the world" by your politicians and business leaders? Also, in exactly what way is this true?

Occasionally one of our pollies tries that on about Australia. You could make a reasonable argument for it (or for a few other countries), given our legal freedoms, economy, robust financial sector, standard of living, low crime rates and weather but it's generally greeted with derisive jeers. There's a healthy distrust of that sort of hubris here. Pride cometh before the fall, and all that.

This confidence seems to be America's greatest strength but perhaps also a bit of a flaw. It generates a "can-do" attitude that has achieved wonderful things but also means that sometimes Americans don't think there is anything to learn from others. Hence the initial hideous casualties in France in WW1 when American commanders ignored the hard lessons of the French and British.

Personally, I think the United States has generally been a force for good in the world but has developed a mythology that it is all about altruism when it has often been pragmatism, a forced hand or even self-interest.

Cheers, Neilster

I have no idea what you said, but it sounded clever [;)]

[Mark71]

ORIGINAL: Son_of_Montfort

Netherlandians

In the beautifull language that is English, we are referred to as 'Dutch'.

edit: I seem to have come to this party a tad late... (both JD and Hans Bolter were correct)

[anarchyintheuk]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Watching the Presidential debate today I was struck by something. I'd like to ask the Americans here whether they think it's actually healthy to be constantly told "America is the greatest country in the world" by your politicians and business leaders? Also, in exactly what way is this true?

Occasionally one of our pollies tries that on about Australia. You could make a reasonable argument for it (or for a few other countries), given our legal freedoms, economy, robust financial sector, standard of living, low crime rates and weather but it's generally greeted with derisive jeers. There's a healthy distrust of that sort of hubris here. Pride cometh before the fall, and all that.

This confidence seems to be America's greatest strength but perhaps also a bit of a flaw. It generates a "can-do" attitude that has achieved wonderful things but also means that sometimes Americans don't think there is anything to learn from others. Hence the initial hideous casualties in France in WW1 when American commanders ignored the hard lessons of the French and British.

Personally, I think the United States has generally been a force for good in the world but has developed a mythology that it is all about altruism when it has often been pragmatism, a forced hand or even self-interest.

Cheers, Neilster

Can only speak for myself but the "US is the greatest country" is pretty much just pro forma in political speech. Because it comes from a politician it means nothing to me (like 99.9% of whatever else said politician has to say). I have no idea what "the greatest country in the world" is or means. It would be interesting to find out when those references became prevalent in US politics and if it has increased or decreased.

As far as the mythology of altruism, I think that's what people like to believe about their countries (even if their country's actions are almost always motivated by self-interest[:D]). As for being a force of good in the world, the most important question for me is . . . is the world a better place because of my country's existence? Generally, I'd have to say yes.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Neilster

Watching the Presidential debate today I was struck by something. I'd like to ask the Americans here whether they think it's actually healthy to be constantly told "America is the greatest country in the world" by your politicians and business leaders?


Cheers, Neilster

One could probably successfully argue the case that it is a necessary counterbalance to constanty being put down by everyone else and denounced as the Great Satans of the universe. [;)]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk




Can only speak for myself but the "US is the greatest country" is pretty much just pro forma in political speech. Because it comes from a politician it means nothing to me (like 99.9% of whatever else said politician has to say). I have no idea what "the greatest country in the world" is or means. It would be interesting to find out when those references became prevalent in US politics and if it has increased or decreased.

Personally, I believe it traces it's origin to two distinct sources.

First would be the diaspora out of Europe of the religiously oppressed looking for a better world (ie...the New World) where they could practice thier religions realitively free from persecution. Hence the "greatest country in the world" naturally, in their eyes, becomes the one that facilitates this desire. The reference developed into a tradition.

The second reason is the massive influx of dispossesed Europeans looking for, and finding economic prosperity. In spite of the current economic meltdown, the USA has enjoyed a much deserved reputation as the Great Land of Oppurtunity. Many, many immigrants have found it to be so. So, once again, it reinforces the perception of being the "greatest".

I'm sure there are other contributing factors to the "sense of greatness" such as the level of foriegn aid handed out and sheer military power, but they don't rank as high on my list as the first two.

I think it is only natural for any nation that finds itself in a "leadership" role to develop a somewhat narcissistic (sp?) sense of self greatness. The Romans being a prime example. After all, the "barbarian" hordes of Europe are only branded as so by history because they lost to the Romans. Many aspects of their cultures were actually far more "civilized" than those of the Romans. That certainly didn't stop the Romans from declaring themsleves to be the greatest embodiment of civilization inj existence.

[Toby42]

I would guess that every citizen would like to think that their country is the "Greatest" country in the world. There's nothing wrong about being proud of one's country, but we live in a shrinking world where we are more and more dependent on others for various things in our life.

[Kuokkanen]

ORIGINAL: Marc von Martial

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

..... quirks like that: "Kun lakkaa satamasta, käyn hakemassa lakkaa satamasta" [;)]

Sounds like me after a crate of Vodka [:)]

I'll translate it to you:

Code: Select all

 Kun   lakkaa    satamasta,  käyn  hakemassa  lakkaa   satamasta
 When  it stops  raining,    I'll  get        varnish  from the dock
 

Note that lakkaa satamasta is there two times

[Widell]

At the risk of offending someone, alternatively hurting someone's feelings (See PS below for explanation) here are three language related links that can be of interest in this exciting debate:

http://www.engrish.com/
http://www.kli.org/ (Don't miss the "Sounds of...." section. Great stuff!)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/

PS (I'm Swedish you know. Traditionally neutral, so I have a desperate need to make sure I stay in the middle lane and take no real position on anything&nbsp;. We learn English well only to be able to communicate with the Danes when we go there to get insanely drunk on their, relatively cheap and, relatively, easily accessible beer. While the Danish understand Swedish reasonably well, Swedes in general are embarrassing when it comes to understanding Danish, and specially Danish numbers. This is why Swedes and Danes are good Engrish) DS

[Toby42]

Cute links! The only way to offend me is to offend my Wife... And maybe tell me that my kid is "Ugly".

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Treale

I would guess that every citizen would like to think that their country is the "Greatest" country in the world. There's nothing wrong about being proud of one's country, but we live in a shrinking world where we are more and more dependent on others for various things in our life.

Britain sucks [:D]

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: Treale

I would guess that every citizen would like to think that their country is the "Greatest" country in the world. There's nothing wrong about being proud of one's country, but we live in a shrinking world where we are more and more dependent on others for various things in our life.

Britain sucks [:D]

Now JD, I've always been an Anglophile. Even if I'm of Sicilan Ancestry.....