Modding Subs question

[Whisper]

ORIGINAL: JWE
Okay, here's the zip file for the mod to Scen01. Instructions are in a doc in the zip.

How in the world did you do that [X(] It is so clean and nothing like my fumbels. Is there some trick or some program the developers have? and can some of us get our hands on it too?

[JWE]

Nothing you and everyboby else ain't got already. Mr. Editor and Mr WitploadAE. That's it. Swear to God.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: JWE

Nothing you and everyboby else ain't got already. Mr. Editor and Mr WitploadAE. That's it. Swear to God.

Did you include any other changes to those files you provided? I preferred to go in an mod the subs separately to avoid losing other changes I have made to both the Ship Class and Ships, but may not want to if you threw in some other update type changes.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Did you include any other changes to those files you provided? I preferred to go in an mod the subs separately to avoid losing other changes I have made to both the Ship Class and Ships, but may not want to if you threw in some other update type changes.

No. Just a straight up mod to Scen026.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
Did you include any other changes to those files you provided? I preferred to go in an mod the subs separately to avoid losing other changes I have made to both the Ship Class and Ships, but may not want to if you threw in some other update type changes.

No. Just a straight up mod to Scen026.

Thanks.

[JWE]

Woof !! Have been playing this with scenarios from '41 through '43. It is looking extremely good given the initial paradigm.

Subs get to stay on station a bit longer: they don't flush 6 tubes at anything that moves: smaller numbers of fish in a salvo result in a bit more rational hit percentages and better damage results: only need something that would shoot a full spread at a high-value target, to be perfect. But that is code, so ...

All things considered, this mod works a bit better than stock. It shifts the distribution a trifle, but sufficient in amount, and sufficient in vector, imho.

[Admiral Scott]

I am playing Dec 8th quiet China Scenario, how long before there is a patch or mod for my scenario?

Also, I dont want to restart my game, will I be able to keep my current game with these changes?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott
I am playing Dec 8th quiet China Scenario, how long before there is a patch or mod for my scenario?

This mod is more of a test-preview. The latest hotfix has its own modifications to the sub combat routines.

We think the mod remains valid, for several reasons - not flushing all torps in a 6 tube weapon slot allows a sub to remain on station longer, before having to return to rearm: the majority of targets encountered only got 2 (with a chance of 4) fish anyway, so it's more reasonable than flushing 6 at an xAKL: the amount of damage, as a function of the number of hits, as compared to durability seems to work more smoothly with fewer hits. All these should work in the same way with the new sub combat code.

We can't release this till we know exactly how it's going to work with the new code. We may have to tweak. We are discussing with our dev brothers, but it would be a MAJOR change, so it will only be acceptable after it has been RIGOROUSLY tested, and not just by us.

After we get it right (with help from you all), we can port it over to the rest of the scenarios.

Also, I dont want to restart my game, will I be able to keep my current game with these changes?

These are not "official" scenarios, so they are not supported by a Matrix comprehensive update. Unfortunately, the answer is no.

[Cerion]

This mod is more of a test-preview. The latest hotfix has its own modifications to the sub combat routines.

We think the mod remains valid, for several reasons - not flushing all torps in a 6 tube weapon slot allows a sub to remain on station longer, before having to return to rearm: the majority of targets encountered only got 2 (with a chance of 4) fish anyway, so it's more reasonable than flushing 6 at an xAKL: the amount of damage, as a function of the number of hits, as compared to durability seems to work more smoothly with fewer hits. All these should work in the same way with the new sub combat code.

We can't release this till we know exactly how it's going to work with the new code. We may have to tweak. We are discussing with our dev brothers, but it would be a MAJOR change, so it will only be acceptable after it has been RIGOROUSLY tested, and not just by us.

After we get it right (with help from you all), we can port it over to the rest of the scenarios.

This looks fantastic and, most important, very realist. Thank you, go ahead

[JWE]

Test results show some very, very good results. In the limit, they resolve to stock, so no worries for existing games or existing OOBs. But the split-tube approach is showing some very positive results for things like ASW combat and invasion TF carnage.

Likely this will show up in the next (first) Babes update.

[el cid again]

ORIGINAL: Norm3

I want to mod the submarine captains ability to shoot less than a full spread at a target. I was wondering if instead of listing 6 torp tube forward, how would it work if I list 2 tubes; 2 tubes; 1 tube; and 1 tube all forward in place.

1. Will this cut down on the number of hits?
2. Will all 6 tubes still fire at once?
3. Though it would look akward, would it be more effective if I spread the tubes around, ie Right Side, Left Side?

I am thinking about this for a couple reasons. I don't think many sub skippers would shoot a full load of torps on any thing short of a CV or BB. I also want my subs to stay on station longer, hopefully not taking 3 (3x6) shots in a day and heading home to rearm, thus depriving me of their info gathering abilities. I am also hopeful that it might reduce the effectiveness (or at least the instant desructiveness of each salvo).

Thanks

Your proposed solution was adopted - in various forms - in RHS. It works very well. In order to force some subs of some periods to fire smaller spreads, I used (typically) salvos of 2 fish (unless there was an odd number on board - e.g. 13). This isn't ideal - a Japanese sub would only fire one fish at a merchant but might fire 4 or 6 at a big military target. But it does help a great deal - and it prevents big spreads at minor targets. Anyway - if you think through the compromises - your proposal works well - and it also permits you to have exact on board inventories - since you can modify the battery and reloads in smaller combinations so the sum is perfect.

[JWE]

Finished testing the split-tube mod for both stock and Da Babes. Want to thank all the people who provided their comments and savegames; a special thanks to Alfred for his comparisons and conclusions on sub vs ASW, and to Brother Osterhaut for his work on salvo content vs target ship types.

The mod is ready. It does not represent any significant departure from stock with respect to detect rates or attack rates, but does exhibit a small, but statistically significant reduction in hit rates and especially in degree of damage experienced by surviving vessels. The number of torps fired at an ASW vessel, and the consequent hit rate is particularly noteworthy.

The mod allows for increased time-on-station for subs, multiple targeting (with appropriate random), and more economic allocation of weapons for the great majority of targets. All-in-all, a more efficient basis.

To adress Norm's concerns, there is a very good possibility that there will be code in the next major update that utilizes this capability, and flushes more torps at a CV than at a xAKL. Can't say it will happen, but it's looking really good. So think of this mod as preparation. If you fire it up now, and play away, you won't have to do squat when the Patch-3 code comes out.

Anyway - mod is good for all scenarios s01, s02, s06, s07, s08, s09 if you follow the step-by-step instructions. Putting it on a separate thread.

As always, those of you who need more, send me a pm.

[Admiral Scott]

How will this mod affect an ongoing game?

[khyberbill]

Test results show some very, very good results. In the limit, they resolve to stock, so no worries for existing games or existing OOBs. But the split-tube approach is showing some very positive results for things like ASW combat and invasion TF carnage.

Likely this will show up in the next (first) Babes update.

I am playing a Babes PBEM right now. Will the update give us this mod or will we have to start over?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: khyberbill
I am playing a Babes PBEM right now. Will the update give us this mod or will we have to start over?

Have to remember that Da Babes is an honest-to-gosh mod. Not supported by official installers. So any updates will need a restart to incorporate the database changes.

We want to avoid the 'revision per week' syndrome, and only update when there is something substantially different going on. The sub-tube thing wasn't really done to "fix" anything, it was done more to provide a different "feel" to submarine game play; make it a bit more grainy and perhaps a bit more realistic in certain circumstances. But the present system is quite acceptable, so if you are in the midst of a game, there is no compelling reason to abandon it in order to make this change: use it in your next game. If you want to play around with it in the meantime, grab the preview up in post-15.

We are still playing around with some additional sneaky things [;)] so the update isn't quite ready yet. The preview is close, though.