Modding Subs question

[NormS3]

I want to mod the submarine captains ability to shoot less than a full spread at a target. I was wondering if instead of listing 6 torp tube forward, how would it work if I list 2 tubes; 2 tubes; 1 tube; and 1 tube all forward in place.

1. Will this cut down on the number of hits?
2. Will all 6 tubes still fire at once?
3. Though it would look akward, would it be more effective if I spread the tubes around, ie Right Side, Left Side?

I am thinking about this for a couple reasons. I don't think many sub skippers would shoot a full load of torps on any thing short of a CV or BB. I also want my subs to stay on station longer, hopefully not taking 3 (3x6) shots in a day and heading home to rearm, thus depriving me of their info gathering abilities. I am also hopeful that it might reduce the effectiveness (or at least the instant desructiveness of each salvo).

Thanks

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Norm3
I want to mod the submarine captains ability to shoot less than a full spread at a target. I was wondering if instead of listing 6 torp tube forward, how would it work if I list 2 tubes; 2 tubes; 1 tube; and 1 tube all forward in place.

1. Will this cut down on the number of hits?
2. Will all 6 tubes still fire at once?
3. Though it would look akward, would it be more effective if I spread the tubes around, ie Right Side, Left Side?

I am thinking about this for a couple reasons. I don't think many sub skippers would shoot a full load of torps on any thing short of a CV or BB. I also want my subs to stay on station longer, hopefully not taking 3 (3x6) shots in a day and heading home to rearm, thus depriving me of their info gathering abilities. I am also hopeful that it might reduce the effectiveness (or at least the instant desructiveness of each salvo).

Thanks

You are thinking very wisely, Norm3.

1. Yes. Game algorithm works such that you get a better than 6x chance to hit if you flush 6 torps, than if you flush 6 tubes, 2 at a time.
2. No. Game will index the Wpn slots, one at a time. Some will fire, some will not, they may even fire at different targets if they fire at all.
3. Very astute observation, Norm; don't forget this is a computer game, the game engine just shoots whatever is in the top Wpn slot. Game don't give a hoot how the slot is organized. We have been looking at 2-2-2 and 3-3 alternatives too. We want to start with 2-2-2, because we think it better to sneak 'up' to a value than dial down.

Screw how it looks, the only people it might offend are the 12 year old forum poptarts, and they don't play the game, so their whining is worthless. I think you have the right idea. The reasons you are thinking about this are exactly the same reasons we are thinking of this as well. Initial testing indicates it does reduce the effectiveness, and especially the instant desructiveness of each salvo.

Am very supportive of your tweaks and would like, very much, to hear your conclusions.

[Mac Linehan]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Norm3
I want to mod the submarine captains ability to shoot less than a full spread at a target. I was wondering if instead of listing 6 torp tube forward, how would it work if I list 2 tubes; 2 tubes; 1 tube; and 1 tube all forward in place.

1. Will this cut down on the number of hits?
2. Will all 6 tubes still fire at once?
3. Though it would look akward, would it be more effective if I spread the tubes around, ie Right Side, Left Side?

I am thinking about this for a couple reasons. I don't think many sub skippers would shoot a full load of torps on any thing short of a CV or BB. I also want my subs to stay on station longer, hopefully not taking 3 (3x6) shots in a day and heading home to rearm, thus depriving me of their info gathering abilities. I am also hopeful that it might reduce the effectiveness (or at least the instant desructiveness of each salvo).

Thanks

You are thinking very wisely, Norm3.

1. Yes. Game algorithm works such that you get a better than 6x chance to hit if you flush 6 torps, than if you flush 6 tubes, 2 at a time.
2. No. Game will index the Wpn slots, one at a time. Some will fire, some will not, they may even fire at different targets if they fire at all.
3. Very astute observation, Norm; don't forget this is a computer game, the game engine just shoots whatever is in the top Wpn slot. Game don't give a hoot how the slot is organized. We have been looking at 2-2-2 and 3-3 alternatives too. We want to start with 2-2-2, because we think it better to sneak 'up' to a value than dial down.

Screw how it looks, the only people it might offend are the 12 year old forum poptarts, and they don't play the game, so their whining is worthless. I think you have the right idea. The reasons you are thinking about this are exactly the same reasons we are thinking of this as well. Initial testing indicates it does reduce the effectiveness, and especially the instant desructiveness of each salvo.

Am very supportive of your tweaks and would like, very much, to hear your conclusions.

JWE -

I do like your phraseology! Will have to try it out on my Middleschoolers on the Bus (who are 12 and sometimes whine a lot - therefore fit the parameters). The only real difference I see between your's and mine is that mine can be moved to a front seat<grin>.

Norm3 -

Intriguing concept - for all the reasons stated. Perhaps we might see it in a future a la JWE's comments.

Mac

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: Norm3
3. Though it would look awkward, would it be more effective if I spread the tubes around, ie Right Side, Left Side?

ORIGINAL: JWE
You are thinking very wisely, Norm3.

3. Very astute observation, Norm; don't forget this is a computer game, the game engine just shoots whatever is in the top Wpn slot. Game don't give a hoot how the slot is organized. We have been looking at 2-2-2 and 3-3 alternatives too. We want to start with 2-2-2, because we think it better to sneak 'up' to a value than dial down.

In your above quote you indicate that ...game engine just shoots whatever is in the top Wpn slot... Do you mean that all torpedo slots have to be the top slots before any other weapons or radar and so forth?

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Herrbear
In your above quote you indicate that ...game engine just shoots whatever is in the top Wpn slot... Do you mean that all torpedo slots have to be the top slots before any other weapons or radar and so forth?

LOL, no, subs don't shoot radars at targets [:D]

Way it works is for "Kinds of Combat" phases, the game looks for appropriate "Kinds of Weapons". So for subs, it will look for Type 16 = torpedo. Then it looks through the Wpn slots to see what's there.

There is only one specific weapon slot requirement for Naval vessels, and that's the "special mine" entry for subs - Wpn slot 9. For the rest, anything pretty much goes.

[NormS3]

Thanks for the reply and for making me feel smart after i failed to save quick enough before the power outage and lost the adjustments to my mod. (I was in the act of saving, just 30 seconds too late.)

I could of sworn that I've learned this leason before . . .[:@]

I thought I was making sense, now I can't wait to get more time to go and work on it again. Glad to be on the right path. Will definately let you know how it goes.

New Question, is there a way to mod the effect of a German Milchcow? I can't seem to get it to work and was ready to drop that idea.[;)]

[DuckofTindalos]

Go ahead and drop it. No underway replenishment of subs.

[NormS3]

Thanks again T. Thought I might be doing something stupid, again.[:D]

[Dixie]

Interesting idea, in theory it'd be possible to have US subs firing full spreads of torps early war when the torps are duds and confidence is low, and then splitting their fire into smaller salvos later in the war as the kinks are worked out with the weapons?

[DuckofTindalos]

It'd be quite easy, in fact.

[Admiral Scott]

This idea sounds great guys.
I would love to see it included in the next patch.

[Buck Beach]

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

This idea sounds great guys.
I would love to see it included in the next patch.

Should remember Admiral that this is the Mod area and anything done here may not make to the general game scenarios. But if your like me that won't make a difference.

[JWE]

Yes, quite right. But hope springs eternal ... This would be a rather radical change and you can probably imagine how over-toasted the poptarts will be if everything isn't exactly right.

But ... and it's a big butt, at that, we did manage to generate Class and Ship files for Scen01 and Da Babes Scen26, with 'all' sub torp tubes split up for testing purposes (and wasn't that just a pita). They are split into pairs, so a 6 bow tube boat will have 2-2-2. Thought this was the best starting point, since it is easier to mod into a 3-3 - just make the first two into a triplet and zero-out the third one: looks funny on the ship screen, but works functionally. Have to watch the Brits and some of the US boats closely because there are some external tube things going on, but otherwise, straight forward.

A main concern is 'undershooting'. Right now a sub might flush 6 bow tubes and blow crap out of a fishing trawler. This alternative system might result in a sub only popping two fish at a CV - 6 of one, half dozen of t'other, but at least the alternative system allows boats to remain on station longer and shoot at more than 2 targets, before running out of ammo and going home, and there is a 'chance' for a second shot.

So, would like some folks to play with it. Would really appreciate some feedback from the mod community. Will post the mod files below.

[JWE]

Okay, here's the zip file for the mod to Scen01. Instructions are in a doc in the zip.

[JWE]

And here's the zip file for the mod to Da Babes Scen26. Instructions are also in a doc in the zip

[Whisper]

Ty very much. Kudos [&o][&o] for doing something.

[Herrbear]

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Herrbear
In your above quote you indicate that ...game engine just shoots whatever is in the top Wpn slot... Do you mean that all torpedo slots have to be the top slots before any other weapons or radar and so forth?

LOL, no, subs don't shoot radars at targets [:D]

Way it works is for "Kinds of Combat" phases, the game looks for appropriate "Kinds of Weapons". So for subs, it will look for Type 16 = torpedo. Then it looks through the Wpn slots to see what's there.

There is only one specific weapon slot requirement for Naval vessels, and that's the "special mine" entry for subs - Wpn slot 9. For the rest, anything pretty much goes.

Thank you for your answer. My concern was that if torpedoes were in slots 1 and 2 and you modified those and added torpedoes in slots 7 and 8 that the program would still recognize 7 and 8 for torpedoes or if the torpedoes would have to be listed in slots 1 - 4 instead. I believe from your answer that adding them to slots 7 and 8, torpedoes would still function correctly.

[Admiral Scott]

Instead of changing a 6 bow tube boat to have 2-2-2 tubes, I would prefer it to be 3-3.

Just my 2 cents.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

ORIGINAL: JWE

ORIGINAL: Herrbear
In your above quote you indicate that ...game engine just shoots whatever is in the top Wpn slot... Do you mean that all torpedo slots have to be the top slots before any other weapons or radar and so forth?

LOL, no, subs don't shoot radars at targets [:D]

Way it works is for "Kinds of Combat" phases, the game looks for appropriate "Kinds of Weapons". So for subs, it will look for Type 16 = torpedo. Then it looks through the Wpn slots to see what's there.

There is only one specific weapon slot requirement for Naval vessels, and that's the "special mine" entry for subs - Wpn slot 9. For the rest, anything pretty much goes.

Thank you for your answer. My concern was that if torpedoes were in slots 1 and 2 and you modified those and added torpedoes in slots 7 and 8 that the program would still recognize 7 and 8 for torpedoes or if the torpedoes would have to be listed in slots 1 - 4 instead. I believe from your answer that adding them to slots 7 and 8, torpedoes would still function correctly.

Everything works fine. The code will select ANY slot containing torpedoes.

[JWE]

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott
Instead of changing a 6 bow tube boat to have 2-2-2 tubes, I would prefer it to be 3-3.

Just my 2 cents.

We are using 2-2-2. Told you why. If you must have 3-3, you can do that yourself. Told you just how to do it. Use the editor. An easy thing if you are careful.

Help available if you need it.