Attn: Japanese Economics Ministers

[CapAndGown]

Do not build light industry anywhere. The return on investment is very very poor. Building HI down in the SRA, however, such as at Singapore, Batavia, Soerebaja, is pretty standard. Not only do you need HI points for almost everything from ships to engines to vehicles, but HI delivers twice the supply as LI for the same investment of supply. HI pays back in supply in 500 days for every point repaired. LI take 1000 days to pay back this investment.

[Zeta16]

Note I am no expert, but I am in 10/43. I coverted as many xAK's as I could, not sure how many maybe 50 at the most. I run from the Northern Home Island, Port Arthur to Home Island, China to Home Island. In the SRA I take stuff to Singapore then to Hong Kong then home. Fuel bulids up so quickly at Palembang, I have 300k to 400k of tonage a month moving fuel out but can not keep up because of port size, oil from there once a month b/c it never really bulids up to much. Really oil never bulids up as much as fuel any where. Burma gets some out but not a lot and the Bureno bases do as well. I try to move as much resources back as can b/c you use more than you think. Overall at the momnent producing what I want and have a HI reserve of 350k, want to get that to 500k or more by mid 44.

[Mark Weston]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

C/M/K

I'll now use just Pt. Arthur, Shanghai and Fusan.  Fusan and Shanghai are good per the spreadsheet.  I think the Yusan N class is good for Pt. Arthur to haul the resources and oil to Honshu.

Does it make sense to be shipping Oil out of Manchuria? The local refinery capacity will run down the local oil stocks and in 540 days Manchuria will be in oil deficit. The result will be a fairly safe fuel stockpile that you can draw down once there are no other options. I don't see any real advantages to moving the stuff to Japan to be refined.

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

C/M/K

I'll now use just Pt. Arthur, Shanghai and Fusan.  Fusan and Shanghai are good per the spreadsheet.  I think the Yusan N class is good for Pt. Arthur to haul the resources and oil to Honshu.

Does it make sense to be shipping Oil out of Manchuria? The local refinery capacity will run down the local oil stocks and in 540 days Manchuria will be in oil deficit. The result will be a fairly safe fuel stockpile that you can draw down once there are no other options. I don't see any real advantages to moving the stuff to Japan to be refined.

I don't ship any oil out of Manchuria. The neat thing is that not only does it refine locally but you can use it to refuel ships pulling resources off the mainland so it never actually needs to get shipped anywhere.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Mark Weston

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

C/M/K

I'll now use just Pt. Arthur, Shanghai and Fusan.  Fusan and Shanghai are good per the spreadsheet.  I think the Yusan N class is good for Pt. Arthur to haul the resources and oil to Honshu.

Does it make sense to be shipping Oil out of Manchuria? The local refinery capacity will run down the local oil stocks and in 540 days Manchuria will be in oil deficit. The result will be a fairly safe fuel stockpile that you can draw down once there are no other options. I don't see any real advantages to moving the stuff to Japan to be refined.

I keep flipping my thoughts on this one. So far, I've pulled out very little oil. I guess the main reason I consider doing it is to get more fuel in Honshu for the future.

[Kitakami]

Mike,

Wouldn't it be better to leave that oil in Manchukuo, and maybe expand Manchurian heavy industry a little?

[pompack]

Delete:

Bad logic

Sorry, but I am recovering from some dental surgery today and my thought processes are even more incoherent than usual [>:]

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

Mike,

Wouldn't it be better to leave that oil in Manchukuo, and maybe expand Manchurian heavy industry a little?

It might Kitakami. I'm beginning to believe that a modest expansion of HI might be worthwhile (and even necessary) to keep the pilot flow going. I'm out of town on business so I don't have access to the game. I do have my notes though. I'll take a look at it tonight. It'll give me something to do. [:D]

[CapAndGown]

Only build HI in the SRA. Period.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Only build HI in the SRA. Period.

I would take it one step further and say only expand in SINGAPORE, period. You wont' have to ship any resources to it, and all the fuel you need is in Palembang, or maybe even shipped overland from Burma. No reason to make it hard on yourself by having to ship all that to the Home Islands.

You might say "but what if you lose Sinagpore", but if you lose Sinagpore, you're toast anyway. The only spot that is safer from Bombers is maybe Soerbaya, but that requires resources to be shipped in. (Not enough on Java)

So, I would ONLY expand HI in Singapore, PERIOD.

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Only build HI in the SRA. Period.

I would take it one step further and say only expand in SINGAPORE, period. You wont' have to ship any resources to it, and all the fuel you need is in Palembang, or maybe even shipped overland from Burma. No reason to make it hard on yourself by having to ship all that to the Home Islands.

You might say "but what if you lose Sinagpore", but if you lose Sinagpore, you're toast anyway. The only spot that is safer from Bombers is maybe Soerbaya, but that requires resources to be shipped in. (Not enough on Java)

So, I would ONLY expand HI in Singapore, PERIOD.

I am going to disagree here. A) Java makes fuel. B) Java has lots of resources. C) There a lot of resource centers on bases scattered about Java. There are more than enough resources and fuel right around Java to make it useful as a HI center. I am also looking at Java as a hub for resource convoys.

[Mark Weston]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I would take it one step further and say only expand in SINGAPORE, period. You wont' have to ship any resources to it, and all the fuel you need is in Palembang, or maybe even shipped overland from Burma. No reason to make it hard on yourself by having to ship all that to the Home Islands.

You might say "but what if you lose Sinagpore", but if you lose Sinagpore, you're toast anyway. The only spot that is safer from Bombers is maybe Soerbaya, but that requires resources to be shipped in. (Not enough on Java)

So, I would ONLY expand HI in Singapore, PERIOD.

Well surely there's a practical problem with that. Say that I decide I need another 1000 HI per day (and a 7% increase doesn't seem huge). That means building 500 HI factories in Singapore and then waiting as they repair at 1 per turn for the next year and a half...

Maximising the ROI on my new factories really requires that they get built as quickly as possible. So I think that means building them at more than one location.

[Mynok]

Yep. Far better to expand every HI center by 7% than hugely expand just one.

[Q-Ball]

Good point on the rate of expansion; I guess I amend that. Still Singapore and Java are the best bets for expansion (the other choices really being Manchuria, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Home Islands)

[findmeifyoucan]

Oh, so you can build up HI incrementally like AC and Engines? I didn't realize that.

[pompack]

ORIGINAL: findmeifyoucan

Oh, so you can build up HI incrementally like AC and Engines? I didn't realize that.

use the green factory button, just like AS and engines

[findmeifyoucan]

Okay, thanks. I didn't expand HI in Japan proper on purpose because I didn't want to increase it by 500HI or more in a particular city. Kind of a waste and really too tight with supply right now on the home islands with all the stuff I am trying to do in first month of the war.

[Mike Solli]

For me, China is a nice choice since one of my house rules is that neither side can bomb the other side's factories there.

[findmeifyoucan]

Wow, you have a friendly war going on in China! Hee, hee.

[Mike Solli]

Yeah, the reason is that if either side bombs out the enemy industry, that side will starve.