Holy cow John Tiller has gone digital: Kharkov 43

[vonRocko]

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01

First off the mouse wheel scroll up or down changes the map and now there are sound effects when a unit moves.

Wow! and it's only 2010! [:D]

[blastpop]

One must walk before they can run...

[Lützow]

ORIGINAL: cmurphy625

You can only install it on one computer.. Major FAIL..

That and they neither host a support system nor a forum. If something goes wrong with a purchase, all one can do is sending a mail.

[Lützow]

Altogether I think this web shop was a bad idea. It doesn't live up to customers expectations, DRM could do more harm than benefit in regard to the customer base, and HPS might fall apart without new Tiller releases.

He should have rather distribute his games over Matrix.

[SlickWilhelm]

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01

First off the mouse wheel scroll up or down changes the map and now there are sound effects when a unit moves.

Wow! and it's only 2010! [:D]

Man, that was just cold. Funny as hell, but cold.

[V22 Osprey]

I really don't like this move.

1)I like phyiscal CD, I hate downloading unless the game is ONLY available through download.
2)I would rather wait for the physical CD to come through the mail than have DRM. To all you guys who wished for digital download: be careful what you wish for.[:D] Now you get DRM.
3)New DRM scheme is REALLY Disappointing.
4) This proably means no more new John Tiller purchases for me, unless through HPS.
5)Poor HPS...considering like 80-90% catalog of they're John Tiller games this could mean the end for HPS...which is sad because I like that company.

[berto]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I really don't like this move.

1)I like phyiscal CD, I hate downloading unless the game is ONLY available through download.
2)I would rather wait for the physical CD to come through the mail than have DRM. To all you guys who wished for digital download: be careful what you wish for.[:D] Now you get DRM.
3)New DRM scheme is REALLY Disappointing.
4) This proably means no more new John Tiller purchases for me, unless through HPS.
5)Poor HPS...considering like 80-90% catalog of they're John Tiller games this could mean the end for HPS...which is sad because I like that company.

agree++ 100%

[sabre1]

It's a losing proposition for me. If it isn't like Matrix, they can go pound sand.

I always buy the physical CD if available. I hate any kind of DRM scheme. I won't buy any software from Eagle Studios becuase of DRM. I won't buy anything from Battlefront because of DRM. If Matrix had a policy like this I wouldn't buy anything from them either. I would find a new hobby. Serial numbers are fair. I understand it, and I also appreciate the freedom it gives me knowing I own the game.

[V22 Osprey]

I will say the DRM is a punch in the gut. Being a loyal buyer of John Tiller and his games at HPS only to get slapped in the face by DRM.[8|] A shame as I really enjoy First World War: France '14 and Musket and Pike: The Renaissance and I was really looking forward to later releases of those series'.[:(]

[E]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I really don't like this move.

1)I like phyiscal CD, I hate downloading unless the game is ONLY available through download.

This strikes me as an almost no-win for Tiller... do a search of how many people complained they didn't like CD's and really wanted downloads for Tiller titles (the obvious solution for having both may not be possible due to the either/or HPS/Tiller situation(s) now).

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
5)Poor HPS...considering like 80-90% catalog of they're John Tiller games this could mean the end for HPS...which is sad because I like that company.

Remember they do a lot of government work in the background. I think they'll survive. Just not so much in our arena. Then again, they still have a whole lot of Tiller titles under their banner. As well as a few other authors. Who may not be as prolific as Tiller (which many have attributed to the cookie-cutter approach), but are becoming popular in their own right.

[dudalb_slith]

I don't mind the digital download if you can back it up on a CD or DVD like you Can At Matrix or Good Old Games,where the download is simply a method of delivery.
But the DRM requiring on line Activiation sucks, and is a deal breaker for me. And, as pointed out, little though seems to have been given for Tech Support .
I will only be buying a John Tiller game if it is on a topic I really want.

[dudalb_slith]

HPS does have some games that are not Tiller designs..the Ancient and Musket and PIke series for example.
But, yeah, this will hurt them...and Tiller I suspect.
Seems to me that Tiller might know a lot about design but have been very badly advised as to how to set up a game distribution system.
Sad that he seems to be taking EA and VIvendi games as a marketing model as far as DM goes. Those two companies are big enough so they can get away with a certain amount of F*** you to customers, but a small operation like TIller's can't do that.

[Adam Parker]

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01

Never thought I would see the day but he has released Kharkov 43 as a DIGITAL DOWNLOAD.

Im all over this sorry to post this but I felt the other wargamers had to know (I buy a ton of Matrix games too!). I think it is kinda cool.

Thank you so much for this amazing HEADS UP! I'm sure that Matrix won't mind the service you've offered to us gamers at all [:)]

Couple of points having just followed the various links and read the story at GameSquad followed by visiting the new Tiller software site:

1. This is the first and only (as far as I'm aware) PC game covering the 1943 Kharkov Campaign at any level.

2. Whilst it looks pure retro Panzer Campaigns to me, the unit art is a marked improvement on past efforts - seekingly trying to match the quality found in the Osprey Volcano Man art packs it seems.

3. The DRM here looks to be less obtrusive than running Norton Antivirus! A one time activation. No need for web connection after that, unless uninstalling and wanting to later load on another machine. Me? I'd prefer to have a digital download with this type of DRM than have to run with a disc always in my system. Run out of activations? Just contact JTS's customer service they say (well, there you go - JTS in now an official acronym with me!).

4. It's only $39.95 on release!

5. I have no doubt that the AI will still struggle but for head to head or solo hotseat, this game is worth putting off buying a boardgame like GMT's soon to be released Barbarossa Series: "Crimea '41" - if monster-style wargaming is your thing.

6. Interestingly, the PC wargame market via digital download is set to boom (well get better [;)] ) in 2011 with GMT Games itself, entering the fray with PC versions of it killer "Twilight Struggle" and just released War on Terror inspired card driven game - "Labyrinth": GMT Announces New PC Games

7. This is a great day for the hobby - and won't in any way prevent me from buying Matrix's War in the East - if anything, it may inspire a desire to want to play it more. The Third Battle of Kharkov is a much missed void in our hobby PC or board game (I think Mark Simonitch's "Ukraine '43" covers it as an example of the latter), it's a highly complex campaign that would have taxed anybody involved in its research and scenario design. The good old names of the John Tiller team are all over this one, particularly Glenn Saunders (master scen builder though project coordinator here), Dave Blackburn who has maps in his blood and Rick Bancroft who has been synonymous with the Panzer Campaigns venture for years now as a fan and contributor - Rick appears to be the man behind the OOB's here. I'm not familiar with the names credited with this game's scenario design (David Freer, Eric Baker, and Phil Niven) but let's see what they've come up with hey?

In summary, board or PC, this has been a great year for wargamers - viva 2011! For reading try:

Nipe, Last Victory in Russia, Schiffer Publishing.

Glantz, After Stalingrad, Helion. May be a hard find in some areas right now pending release of its paperback.

EDIT: Red Highlight - I no longer agree with that statememt as noted below. A player should have unlimited activations on his/her game purchases, just like unlimited access to patches and support (which are not issues here but "givens"). It would be like Microsoft telling me I can no longer load Office 2003 because Office 20007 was now available for XP. Wish this forum had a cross-out button [:)]

[pvthudson01]

http://www.theblitz.org/message_boards/ ... ?tid=57499

Guys:

John has decided to alter the DRM Code to allow for two PC instances so players who move between a main PC and a laptop will be able to do so.

The code for this has been written but it needs to be tested and we'll start that tomorrow with the idea being to make it available later in the day if all goes well. The change doesn't affect the copy of the game that people may have downloaded already - the change is on John's server end

If you have already got your game installed and want to be one of the first to try a second install on your other PC, drop me a line and I will contact you when the code is ready to go.

Thanks for all your comments today - rest assure we read them all and respect the opinions of the community.

Glenn

[rwenstrup]

The quick response to the issue helps...but the two installs misses the point. The OWNER of the game does not want to have to contact a company that may...or may not be in existence/open today/still supporting the game...to install a product they own.

DRM...the computer software industries seal of approval for companies headed for extinction...

[E]

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

3. The DRM here looks to be less obtrusive than running Norton Antivirus!

What a sales pitch! (ROFL... Kind of like saying 'It's better than poking BOTH your eyes with stick! Buy it now!')

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

Me? I'd prefer to have a digital download with this type of DRM than have to run with a disc always in my system.

Have you considered another option/preference? ...NEITHER!

(However, with a disc system, at least you don't need internet access nor the company to still exist.)

[pvthudson01]

I think you are blowing this way out of proportion and are a doomsayer but that is just me. I have never had any issues with it, John addressed it, this is 2010 not 1995. You have to take steps to prevent piracy. Get used to it, digital is the way to go. If you dont use things like Steam, Impulse or services like that you are just behind the times and are in for a sorry gaming life when you have to go into a Gamestop years from now and look at their slim selection of PC titles and whine about how they dont stock boxes with CD's anymore. Just like I dont use VHS or DVD's anymore for movies. Times are changing and either you are with it or you are a naggy dinosaur. You can pick the path you choose. JTS isnt going anywhere. I know how to log in and get my serial number if I need it, and I am sure other people are not idiots as well and can figure it out.

Every Matrix title I own is a digital download. You dont see me bitching. Every Battlefront Title I own is a digital download. Are they going out of business to?

2 installs is fine and I am glad John and crew at least addressed the issue.

Pull the stick out of your butts and learn to use a PC and the things the internet offers

[Titanwarrior89]

I boardgame as much as I Computer game. Yes there is another option. I SEE you bitching about their bitching so stop bitching....[;)]

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01

I think you are blowing this way out of proportion and are a doomsayer but that is just me. I have never had any issues with it, John addressed it, this is 2010 not 1995. You have to take steps to prevent piracy. Get used to it, digital is the way to go. If you dont use things like Steam, Impulse or services like that you are just behind the times and are in for a sorry gaming life when you have to go into a Gamestop years from now and look at their slim selection of PC titles and whine about how they dont stock boxes with CD's anymore. Just like I dont use VHS or DVD's anymore for movies. Times are changing and either you are with it or you are a naggy dinosaur. You can pick the path you choose. JTS isnt going anywhere. I know how to log in and get my serial number if I need it, and I am sure other people are not idiots as well and can figure it out.

Every Matrix title I own is a digital download. You dont see me bitching. Every Battlefront Title I own is a digital download. Are they going out of business to?

2 installs is fine and I am glad John and crew at least addressed the issue.

Pull the stick out of your butts and learn to use a PC and the things the internet offers

Note: I am still looking for that Stick......Haven't found it yet but don't give up hope.[&:][X(] By the way thanks for the link.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: pvthudson01
I think you are blowing this way out of proportion and are a doomsayer but that is just me. I have never had any issues with it, John addressed it, this is 2010 not 1995. You have to take steps to prevent piracy. Get used to it, digital is the way to go. If you dont use things like Steam, Impulse or services like that you are just behind the times and are in for a sorry gaming life when you have to go into a Gamestop years from now and look at their slim selection of PC titles and whine about how they dont stock boxes with CD's anymore. Just like I dont use VHS or DVD's anymore for movies. Times are changing and either you are with it or you are a naggy dinosaur. You can pick the path you choose. JTS isnt going anywhere. I know how to log in and get my serial number if I need it, and I am sure other people are not idiots as well and can figure it out.

Every Matrix title I own is a digital download. You dont see me bitching. Every Battlefront Title I own is a digital download. Are they going out of business to?

2 installs is fine and I am glad John and crew at least addressed the issue.

Pull the stick out of your butts and learn to use a PC and the things the internet offers

No personal attacks. Consider this a warning.

Please keep things civil everyone, feel free to discuss and comment but do not make things personal and remember that we do not allow bashing of other developers/publishers here either.

Regards,

- Erik

[Adam Parker]

Deleted - excellent timing Erik [;)]