Ironman Japan v5 - UPDATED

[Enterprise]

Thanks Hans,

I'm pretty sure by now that Ansi has always been in scen 1. I did as you suggest with a few wrinkles. I withdrew one I-16 group into the other which resulted in some reserve planes a few turns later. there is enough supply in the area to save them. I regard this as useful since there is also a shortage of chinese planes for rear area training. As an experiment, I left the last I-16 group on stand down to see if I could build up 20000 supply by pulling from nearby russian off map stores. I believe the I-16 would go to the pools at a base with 20000 supply. Patience was no problem since I had forgotten all about this til I read your post. On Jan 26 42, Hami is set to 9300+ supply need and has 4304, whch is slightly less than the supply they had 6 game weeks ago when I last checked.

/Forrest Gump Since Ive gone this far, I might try to pull supply base by base from off map /Forrest Gump

[Keifer]

Andy,

I am going to fire this one up.

Any suggestions about maximizing my enjoyment of the AI challenge?

In particular, does the AI have any quirks that I shouldn't take advantage of?

Like, don't do a fortress Palembang.

Thanks, Keith

[PaxMondo]

I'm playing Ironman Allied.  From that perspective:
- use normal difficulty, and put it up to hard 2 - 4 days/month
- no deep ends runs.

[Keifer]

PaxMondo,

Thanks for the feedback.

What do you mean "put it up to hard 2 - 4 days/month?"

That sounds vaguely dirty.

Thanks, Keith

[PaxMondo]

THe difficulty setting.  [;)]
 
Andy says for the Ironman series, Normal difficulty is sufficient for play and then 2 - 3 turns per month shift it up to Hard.  For the stock GC, he suggests at least Hard difficulty setting for the AI to work well.
 
I'm following his advice in my new game.  Working out well so far.  AI is kicking my butt all over China right now.  Allied AI is REALLY aggressive in China and they have the forces to take advantage.  I think I have 3 or 4 bases under siege now ... I'm gonna lose Sinyang in a turn or two.  I can't get reinforcements there soon enough nor can I extricate my troops now either.  Gonna be bloody.  [8D]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

THe difficulty setting.  [;)]

Andy says for the Ironman series, Normal difficulty is sufficient for play and then 2 - 3 turns per month shift it up to Hard.  For the stock GC, he suggests at least Hard difficulty setting for the AI to work well.

I'm following his advice in my new game.  Working out well so far.  AI is kicking my butt all over China right now.  Allied AI is REALLY aggressive in China and they have the forces to take advantage.  I think I have 3 or 4 bases under siege now ... I'm gonna lose Sinyang in a turn or two.  I can't get reinforcements there soon enough nor can I extricate my troops now either.  Gonna be bloody.  [8D]

I've found that the limitations of the scripts (according to Andy) that limit the AIs actions to being coded for base hexes only leads to an inability of the AI to perform with any real degree of effectiveness in the open country non-base hexes of China.

The AI really, really needs the advantage of being able to never run out of supply even when surrounded. This means playing on the hard setting full time. I've sworn off playing on normal any longer.

[HansBolter]

In fact the AI is doing extremely poorly in China in my current game even with the setting on hard:

Hankow fell to the Chinese on February 24, 1942:

Ground combat at Hankow (85,50)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 107232 troops, 693 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2146

Defending force 24807 troops, 423 guns, 177 vehicles, Assault Value = 127

Allied adjusted assault: 4173

Japanese adjusted defense: 797

Allied assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Hankow !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
8974 casualties reported
Squads: 89 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 734 destroyed, 87 disabled [X(]
Engineers: 184 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 287 (280 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Vehicles lost 129 (127 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 21


Allied ground losses:
1171 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 114 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
44th Chinese Corps
68th Chinese Corps
8th Chinese Corps
18th Chinese Corps
32nd Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
67th Chinese Corps
75th Chinese Corps
53rd Chinese Corps
45th Chinese Corps
87th Chinese Corps
94th Chinese Corps
20th Group Army
22nd Artillery Regiment
20th Artillery Regiment
26th Group Army
6th War Area
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment

Defending units:
8th Ind. Engineer Regiment
57th Infantry Brigade
13th Division
138th Infantry Regiment
3rd Division
34th Division
13th RGC Temp. Division
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
51st Road Const Co
Hankow Special Base Force
11th Army
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
12th RGC Temp. Division
22nd AA Regiment
11th RGC Temp. Division
9th Armored Car Co
58th Infantry Regiment
54th JAAF AF Bn

and here is a screenshot of China on February 27th with the retreated remnants of the original 22 unit Hankow garrison about to be polished off:

[Banzan]

I'm playing the ironman scenario at the moment, but the japanese airforce is bombing any of my defense/offense efforts in china into obilivion. Even a handfull of bombers every turn destroy my forces faster then any 4Es can do. And the AI uses a lot of bombers there. No clue how Andy changed the japanese airforce, as i can't see anything in the editor (planes and bombs). Their bombers shoot down my fighters at least at 1:1 or better and their medium bombers make the B29 look like a Wirraway. [:)]

[HansBolter]

The AI bombs the snot out of me also, but it fixates on the cities at or near the coast in the south so my offensives in the center are free to rampage. The garrisons in the southern coastal cities have about 10 availabale squads each with 200-300 disrupted squads as a result of the daily bombing.

I don't, however, see Japanese bombers shooting down Chinese fighters in droves. I get the opposite result with Chinese pilots easily taking out Betties with I-15s.

[Andy Mac]

v5 now posted.....as alwaysa feedback welcome

[Andy Mac]

change listt (that I am willing to admit to)

A few new TF's floating around
Ansi added
P40's added back in
Perth repair yard
CV replensihment sqns added for japan to keep CAG#s topped up
More Easter Eggs added **CENSORED**

ps beware of turn one now[:D][:D]

[traskott]

Bad boy !!!! Interesting.... [:D]

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

change listt (that I am willing to admit to)

A few new TF's floating around
Ansi added
P40's added back in
Perth repair yard
CV replensihment sqns added for japan to keep CAG#s topped up
More Easter Eggs added **CENSORED**

ps beware of turn one now[:D][:D]

speaking of keeping CAGs topped up....do the Japanese ever run out of ammunition stores on their carriers? I see them sit off Java for 2-3 weeks straight bombing every day without ever returning to port to replenish stores......

when did this v5 get posted? I think I might still be playing v3 and I don't recall there being a v4. how can we tell which "v" we are currently playing?

can I switch mid game? or do I have to restart?

[Enterprise]

excellent! my thanks for the change list content!

Hans has asked if we have to restart, and Im guessing yes. but I'll second the question. I'm currently 4-13-42.

[PaxMondo]

Are you working on Ironman allied AI update?&nbsp; <hopefully>
[&o][&o][&o]

[Andy Mac]

Got a few PM's to respond to basically I think it will require a re start.

I may need to make an amendment or 2 but in general I think its stable

Re Allied Ironman its on my list I want to get the updates done to both Ironmans before I start to rebuild my work on the 42 start

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Re Allied Ironman its on my list I want to get the updates done to both Ironmans before I start to rebuild my work on the 42 start

Whoo-Hoo!!! Can't wait!!!

[HansBolter]

Andy,

I have to say I thnk you went too far. Last night I updated to 1108r9 and Ironman Japan v5. I deleted all my previously saved games of v3 and started a new game with great anticipation. What I found myself on the receiving end of in turn one was beyond the pale.

I didn't mind in v3 how you had the Japanese making more than one port strike on day one because the additional port strikes went against targets with insignificant assets (Davao, Hong Kong and Rangoon). I didn't even mind too much when your last tweak prior to this one put a carrier TF in position to sink the Houston.

However, your latest tweak with an over the top PH strike with two TFs off pearl and another hitting Manila not once, but TWICE on day one is just too much.

I want a better fight once I start fighting. I don't want a knock out blow while I'm still sleeping and haven't even awoken to start the fight yet. Even JFBs who twist thier opponents arms into playing sceario 2 with a non-historical first turn usually implement house rules limiting Japan to one port strike on day one. You have the AI doing what no Japanese player would ever try to do, becasue no Allied opponent would ever agree to it.

Turn one left such a sour taste in my mouth I am wondering how to downgrade back to v3, or if I should play v5 with first turn surprise off so I can move some assets out of the path of this juggernaut you've created.

I like for my game to deviate from history AFTER the first turn. When I choose a historical first turn an historical first turn with variable results is what I expect to get.

I realize I'll get attacked up one side and down the other for my negative feedback, but I have endeavored to diligently provide you with feedback on the scenario I play the most, good or bad as it may be. I am sure others will likely feel differently, but I think you went too far.

Results of SIX first turn port attacks below:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 105 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 51
A6M2-N Rufe x 2
B5N2 Kate x 168
D3A1 Val x 160



Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed by flak
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 3 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 144 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 16 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 54 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 34 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 3 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 34 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 10 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 24 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 39 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 10 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 32 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 5 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 15 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 4 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 1 damaged
R3D-2: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 5 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 7 damaged
O-47A: 2 destroyed on ground
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground
SOC-1 Seagull: 3 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CM Oglala
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
AE Pyro, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
BB California, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DM Tracy
DD Conyngham, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AV Wright, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PC Taney, Bomb hits 1
DD Allen, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Case, Bomb hits 1
DM Montgomery, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AV Curtiss, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DM Gamble, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AK Castor, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
AE Mauna Loa, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Jarvis, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DM Preble, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Tucker, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AD Whitney, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Worden, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Zane, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AM Turkey, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
PG Sacramento, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Monaghan, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AO Neosho, Bomb hits 1
DMS Trevor, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Narwhal, Bomb hits 1
DMS Wasmuth, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Breese, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AVP Swan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Aylwin, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk


Allied ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled


Repair Shipyard hits 1
Airbase hits 44
Airbase supply hits 6
Runway hits 82

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Davao , at 79,91

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N1 Kate x 12



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AVD William B. Preston, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Montanes, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAKL Mauban, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage



Port hits 1
Port fuel hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 5000 feet *
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 7
A6M2 Zero x 14
B5N1 Kate x 71



Allied aircraft
no flights

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 42 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 5 destroyed on ground
PBY-4 Catalina: 43 damaged
PBY-4 Catalina: 2 destroyed on ground
SOC-1 Seagull: 7 damaged
SOC-1 Seagull: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
SS Permit, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS S-40, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
SS Spearfish, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage
PT Q-111, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SS Swordfish, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
AM Lark, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PT-34, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
DD Pope, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AS Otus, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
DD Peary, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Pillsbury, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Capillo, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Salmon, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
SS Stingray, Bomb hits 1, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 7
Runway hits 40

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 5000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
24 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 5000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 10000 feet
27 x B5N1 Kate bombing from 5000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Rangoon , at 54,53

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 3 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 0 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 18



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAK Chilka, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Chaksang, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Indira, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Mundra, Bomb hits 2, on fire
xAKL Agnes, Bomb hits 1



Aircraft Attacking:
18 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Hong Kong , at 77,61

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 68 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
G4M1 Betty x 18



Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
xAK Hai Lee, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
xAK Ming Sang, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Halldor, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Munlock, Bomb hits 2, on fire
xAK Hinsang, Bomb hits 1
xAKL Kanchow, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAK Fatshan, Bomb hits 1
xAKL Chengtu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Hanyang, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Bennevis, Bomb hits 1
xAKL Soochow, Bomb hits 1, on fire



Repair Shipyard hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
City Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
10 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Manila , at 79,77

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
D3A1 Val x 19



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
SS Sailfish, Bomb hits 1
xAKL Sagoland, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Tanager, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
SS Searaven, Bomb hits 1
SS Skipjack, Bomb hits 1
PT-31, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Don Jose, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage




Aircraft Attacking:
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Andy Mac]

hans aways willing to take feedback if I went to far I went to far.....

Let me take a look I may have got carried away with my desire to shock and awe....

[Andy Mac]

Was it the Manila strike that was the step to far ??