Friendly Fire!

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 5:27 pm

Originally posted by David Heath
Hi Guys

We (Matrix and 2by3 Games) have looked into this at some depth and we can not find anything that would cause this problem. No one in the group can repeat this error with the save files. The Long Island issue is not the problem.

This is not to say you are not having a problem but if we can't reproduce it then there is really no way Mike, Gary or Keith can attempt to fix it. You guys have seen the type of support we have given our products so its not a lack of wanting to fix it.

The bottom line with this one to try to please narrow down what may be causing this error. We have tried the saved files on the last released version of UV and the up coming v2.0 and the results were the same.

I am sorry we do not have a better answer for you.

David Heath

I do not doubt that you guys at Matrix have tried your best...I and think that I speak for everyone on the board when I say that.
I think that if you are unable to reproduce the fault, and Ross has mentioned that he can't even see the fault running 2.0, then that would point to 2.0 (hopefully) "fixing" the fault. Until then all we can do is wait. But you (and Ross's) replies are appreciated.

Grotius · Post by **Grotius** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 8:52 pm

Hi Ross et al.,

Well, I may be too late, but I've e-mailed Ross a savegame that features the "friendly fire" bug. I'm using an Athlon 900, 512M RAM, GeForce II GTS, Windows XP Home, UV 1.40.

In my save-game, 6 x Kittykawks based in Port Moresby "attack" Buna, over which I have massive amounts of LRCAP (covering an invasion fleet). My own CAP engages my own Kittyhawks. No damage resulted in this particular case, but I have had bombers bomb one of my DDs. What's odd is that my Kittyhawks at PM were all set either to LRCAP over Buna or to rest (Training 0%). I don't understand why these six felt compelled to "attack" anything.

Friendly fire was, of course, a hazard of the war in the Pacific, so in a way I don't mind. Too much. <grin>

Anyway, I hope this might help, but I'll understand if Matrix still can't reproduce it. UV still rocks.

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 10:08 pm

Hi

It is Sunday for Ross now but I will check with him and see if he can reproduce it with this recent save.

David Heath

Grotius · Post by **Grotius** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:56 am

Many thanks. It certainly can wait until after the weekend! It's not a show-stopper bug.

Barney · Post by **Barney** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 5:26 am

I may have been lost in the thread, but in my case, lots of ships at PM under a determined opponent, lots of sinking, smoke, confusion, etc, I don't see friendly fire as a bug and my guys mistaking a few DD's seems reasonable, whether or not that in the program I can't say. But for the record, I'm fine with my friendly fire. Let's see if it comes up again. Running v1.4.

Grotius · Post by **Grotius** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 6:01 am

I don't disagree, Barney; in my case, the friendly fire was a minor nuisance, really a curiosity more than anything else. But Matrix seems to be saying that they didn't design the game to include the feature, so I thought I'd help out by sending along a savegame. <shrug>

Incidentally, Ross/Matrix, I'm still not sure my e-mail with the save game got through to Ross. I sent it to rossm@matrixgames.com -- at least I think I did -- but at least once it got bounced back to me, and I had to resend it. Thinking out loud: could it be that Compuserve (which I use for e-mail) doesn't let me send an attachment that large? It's almost 9M as I recall.

Let me know if you need me to send it again.

Oleg Mastruko · Post by **Oleg Mastruko** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 6:13 am

Originally posted by Grotius
Incidentally, Ross/Matrix, I'm still not sure my e-mail with the save game got through to Ross. I sent it to rossm@matrixgames.com -- at least I think I did -- but at least once it got bounced back to me, and I had to resend it. Thinking out loud: could it be that Compuserve (which I use for e-mail) doesn't let me send an attachment that large? It's almost 9M as I recall.

Zip it, ie. compress it before sending and it'll shrink to just 500-ish kBs. 9 MBs is indeed huge.

But no matter whether you do that or not, I bet you 20 dollars Ross "would not be able to reproduce the bug"

If you don't mind I'll say again - you may try sending it to me, I am becoming real interested in whether I can reproduce them buggies or not...

O.

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 6:48 am

Yes please send the bug to Oleg and lets see if he is able to reproduce it.

David

Luskan · Post by **Luskan** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:02 pm

Adm. Arctic just sent me an email telling me that in the reply file my own bombers sink my own invasion fleet. He sent me the file, I loaded up UV and the replay was totally different - my bombers stayed home.

I've done some further testing.

I read something about v2 patch making a player restart UV before running a pbem combat replay. I loaded UV and loaded the replay. 3 strikes from IJN bombers, no strikes from mine, and most of my ships still on the water by the end of the day.

Just for "fun" I reloaded the same turn without restarting UV - I managed to replicate exactly what AA told me (only one launch from lunga instead of 3 for the IJN, and my b-26s and havocs attack my own ships twice, and sink the whole lot.) I reloaded the turn again and again - 4 times I got these results.

I restarted UV, laoded up the replay, and BOOM! back to the "normal" results. Soon as I load up the sav.006 file (haven't got it yet) I'll know if it was real or not.

Is this what you mean when V2 will fix this bug, or am I just reading an old post (which the PBEM Bug Fix thread is in answer to?)

Pawlock · Post by **Pawlock** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 8:42 pm

This replay bug is still not gone, I have had no end of trouble as USN not getting the correct results.

I have tried numerous things, fresh start ,deleting save files etc only to be plagued by innacuracies on the replay for the USN.

The only way I can get an idea of what truelly happens is viewing the Zipped up version of the combat report text file. As soon as you unzipp it corrupts the whole thing again.

Based on the guys at Matrix own reccomendations to do fresh restarts to fix , and if with patch 2.0 that is essentially what is gonna happen, I have my reservations on wether this will fix the problem.

Grotius · Post by **Grotius** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:08 pm

OK, I'll zip my save and send it to Oleg and Ross. Er, Oleg, what's your e-mail address? I looked in your profile, but the only option was to send an e-mail thru this board, and it doesn't seem to permit attachments. Or does it?

Oleg, you can e-mail your address to me at

grwatson@compuserve.com

Thanks!

Oleg Mastruko · Post by **Oleg Mastruko** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:07 am

My e-mail address is oleg@bug.hr.

Send me all the problematic files you (and others with this problem) want, and I'll do my best to try to test them in the coming week on several computers running different processors (AMD Duron, AMD Athlon, oldish Intel Celeron, Intel P4 etc. - basically couple of PCs I hope to find to be "free" in my magazine's office/hardware lab and home).

I'll repeat one thing though... I need to be sent Allied player end-phase files, and need to be given Jap player password (in case of PBEM files). That's the only way I can test anything. Sending replay files that were generated in "buggy" conditions is irrelevant test-wise, because then I just replay same "buggy" replay over and over.

And please compress files before sending

O.

Oleg Mastruko · Post by **Oleg Mastruko** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:54 am

Well, although in my first post in this thread I semi-criticised Ross for being unable to reproduce bugs from the files he was sent, now I must say I do feel for him, and other Matrix testers

What we got here is huuuge thread, nominally dealing with huuuuge bug that no one is able to reproduce, verify, or test!

I called for all the players allegedly seeing this bug to send me their files so as to try to test them as best as I could (see the relevant posts for details), and try to see whether the CPU model might have something to do with this. David Heath from Matrix asked you to do the same (ie to send me your files).

Net result? Zilch, zero, nil.

I received ONE file from grwatson, and ONE from Raverdave. Raverdave's file contained replay file that was already generated in "buggy" environment, on his opponents computer, so - although I was able to see the problem - it is completely irrelevant for testing purposes, like replaying the broken record over and over, instead of buying another one and seeing whether it's the record player that is really broken.

Grwatson's complaint I was unable to see, and frankly it was utterly trivial compared with "real problem" here (some Kittyhawks allegedly attacked CAP over Buna, with NO combat replay taking place, and NO casualties I can see - just the alleged message in the "message corner", that I didn't see either, something that would not even happen if this was PBEM).

As I said, this, compared with "fleet massacres" people are talking about, that are clearly visible in combat replay screenies, and allegedly reproducable at will, is utterly trivial, and very dissatisfying (from the tester's point of view).

O.

Drongo · Post by **Drongo** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:22 am

Oleg, this is no time to have a hissy fit.:p

Grwatson's complaint I was unable to see, and frankly it was utterly trivial compared with "real problem" here (some Kittyhawks allegedly attacked CAP over Buna, with NO combat replay taking place, and NO casualties I can see - just the alleged message in the "message corner", that I didn't see either, something that would not even happen if this was PBEM).

Don't be so dismissive of Grotius' complaint, it is part of the same problem. The AAR I posted with my DD's being struck did not have a replay of the actual attack. It was the same as Grotius' situation, it only showed up as a message during the turn (and then in the AAR after the turn). I then verified it by checking the DD damage before and after the turn.

The only time you will see a "friendly fire" on a battle screen is when aircraft from both sides are involved (as in Raverdaves replay). I think the battle resolution screen will only trigger in that circumstance (enemy a/c involved as well as friendly).

It is important to recognise that Grotius' message of having his CAP atacked by "friendly" Kittyhawks is exactly what happened to me (except it was zeros). The turn after that (in my game) was when I had my ships attacked by "friendly" Kates. If you didn't see his message on your machine, it may mean that the problem is machine dependant (who knows at this point).

I will have the time to reconstruct my turns for you next week but the clearest example sounds like Raverdaves' (as you definitely get too see a combat occur). I'm sure he and his opponent can be persuaded to send whatever you need.

Your efforts are appreciated.

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 11:54 am

Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
Well, although in my first post in this thread I semi-criticised Ross for being unable to reproduce bugs from the files he was sent, now I must say I do feel for him, and other Matrix testers

What we got here is huuuge thread, nominally dealing with huuuuge bug that no one is able to reproduce, verify, or test!

I called for all the players allegedly seeing this bug to send me their files so as to try to test them as best as I could (see the relevant posts for details), and try to see whether the CPU model might have something to do with this. David Heath from Matrix asked you to do the same (ie to send me your files).

Net result? Zilch, zero, nil.

I received ONE file from grwatson, and ONE from Raverdave. Raverdave's file contained replay file that was already generated in "buggy" environment, on his opponents computer, so - although I was able to see the problem - it is completely irrelevant for testing purposes, like replaying the broken record over and over, instead of buying another one and seeing whether it's the record player that is really broken.

Grwatson's complaint I was unable to see, and frankly it was utterly trivial compared with "real problem" here (some Kittyhawks allegedly attacked CAP over Buna, with NO combat replay taking place, and NO casualties I can see - just the alleged message in the "message corner", that I didn't see either, something that would not even happen if this was PBEM).

As I said, this, compared with "fleet massacres" people are talking about, that are clearly visible in combat replay screenies, and allegedly reproducable at will, is utterly trivial, and very dissatisfying (from the tester's point of view).

O.

I have asked my opponent to send you his files also, which I think that he has.

Ross Moorhouse · Post by **Ross Moorhouse** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:58 pm

Originally posted by Grotius
I don't disagree, Barney; in my case, the friendly fire was a minor nuisance, really a curiosity more than anything else. But Matrix seems to be saying that they didn't design the game to include the feature, so I thought I'd help out by sending along a savegame. <shrug>

Incidentally, Ross/Matrix, I'm still not sure my e-mail with the save game got through to Ross. I sent it to rossm@matrixgames.com -- at least I think I did -- but at least once it got bounced back to me, and I had to resend it. Thinking out loud: could it be that Compuserve (which I use for e-mail) doesn't let me send an attachment that large? It's almost 9M as I recall.

Let me know if you need me to send it again.

I have been away from my PC for a few days. I have the files sent to me and will have a look at them tomorrow as I catch up. Sorry for the delay.

Sonny · Post by **Sonny** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 9:05 pm

Originally posted by Ross Moorhouse

I have been away from my PC for a few days...................

How do you manage that?? I thought you guys were chained to your desks so you could put out all these nice updates and fix the problems. Matrix must be a truly enlightened company to allow people to leave their desks.

Raverdave · Post by **Raverdave** » Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:16 pm

Well so far so good, been running V 2.0 and no sign of the friendly fire bug.
I am a happy little vegimite:D

Drongo · Post by **Drongo** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:30 pm

Posted by Raver

Well so far so good, been running V 2.0 and no sign of the friendly fire bug. I am a happy little vegimite.

Ditto.

Ross Moorhouse · Post by **Ross Moorhouse** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:28 pm

I will be happy when the peanut butter and jelly crowd report in that they haven't seen any crashes.. I do hope they see my humour here to seeing as we say in Aussie speak that we are happy little vegimites..

Friendly Fire!

SAME PROB!!!!

Ross you were right!