Friendly Fire!
Moderator: Tankerace
Friendly Fire!
I have never seen or heard of this but it happened to me. I am at the beginning of scen 19 as the USN in a heated battle at PM with an aggressive and competent opponent. I've tried to counter his invasion with some CA's and DD's in port to counter his AP's. Successful so far, several sinkings, both sides. I set my air to naval attack to increase my hits on his AP's in port. The latest combat report for air attacks showed me countering his Zeros OK and I was then looking forward to my sizable bomber force to crush his AP's at PM. WELL, they bombed one of my DD's there and sunk it! They broke off, but it was FRIENDLY FIRE on my own forces! It's in the program so watch out...
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Ross Moorhouse
- Posts: 780
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 5:00 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
We do know about this. Drongo sent me a save of this from which I wasn't able to get it to replicate. If you have a save with this happening you can send it to me.
rossm@matrixgames.com
rossm@matrixgames.com
Me too!
Ross,
I have just sent you an email with the same fault as reported by Barney and Drongo and while I don't have a PBEM with Barney, I do with Drongo. But the fault that I have sent you is NOT to do with the PBEM as reported by Drongo. The short version of the fault is my B-26s bombing my TF of APs, which are unloading at Lunga.
Regards
Dave
I have just sent you an email with the same fault as reported by Barney and Drongo and while I don't have a PBEM with Barney, I do with Drongo. But the fault that I have sent you is NOT to do with the PBEM as reported by Drongo. The short version of the fault is my B-26s bombing my TF of APs, which are unloading at Lunga.
Regards
Dave
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
And me too!
I've also had a problem with friendly fire. Mostly I had my land-based fighters "striking" my friendly vessels and engaging in air-to-air combat with my own CAP. But I think I even had a bomber do this a few times; I'm not sure, but I thought I saw one report indicate that I'd bombed my own DD. Strange.
When I get a chance, I'll send Matrix a save game. It happened in about a dozen consecutive turns at the very end of "The Turning Tide," in which I was playing Allies vs the AI.
When I get a chance, I'll send Matrix a save game. It happened in about a dozen consecutive turns at the very end of "The Turning Tide," in which I was playing Allies vs the AI.
Re: Me too!
See, they take that "Bomb any APs unloading as a first priority" too seriously!!:D We need an attack priority list!!;)Originally posted by Raverdave
Ross,
............
The short version of the fault is my B-26s bombing my TF of APs, which are unloading at Lunga.
Regards
Dave
Quote from Snigbert -
"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."
"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "
"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."
"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "
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Ross Moorhouse
- Posts: 780
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 5:00 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Every save I get sent with this I can't replicate. If I can't replicate it the programer can't look at it.
I have a thought that it could be the FOW and you would need to write down what units have had this done to them. Then when you have played the scenario to it's end and see the victory conditions you should check for damaged or sunk ships and see if it matches what you wrote down in the case of the ships.
I have a thought that it could be the FOW and you would need to write down what units have had this done to them. Then when you have played the scenario to it's end and see the victory conditions you should check for damaged or sunk ships and see if it matches what you wrote down in the case of the ships.
Ross,
I've staged 2 invasions with my CV's flying CAP and had it happen both times.
This second invasion target is in the middle of a well prepared allied defensive zone covered by mutually supportive allied airbases. Friendly fire is (probably) weakening my CAP and damaging/sinking my ships without the allies yet intervening. I can't expect my opponent to withhold his attacks while I'm vulnerable (unless I continually buy him beers).
We did a test by playing on a few turns and it was still happening. I dont think either of us would be prepared to keep playing another 11 months, under the circumstances, to end the game.
If its a bug, we'll wait for 2.0 and then see. If 2.0 doesn't stop it, I'll report it again.
If its PC related, I'll be happy to try uninstalling/reinstalling, clean ups, etc, whatever is suggested, in about a week.
I've staged 2 invasions with my CV's flying CAP and had it happen both times.
This second invasion target is in the middle of a well prepared allied defensive zone covered by mutually supportive allied airbases. Friendly fire is (probably) weakening my CAP and damaging/sinking my ships without the allies yet intervening. I can't expect my opponent to withhold his attacks while I'm vulnerable (unless I continually buy him beers).
We did a test by playing on a few turns and it was still happening. I dont think either of us would be prepared to keep playing another 11 months, under the circumstances, to end the game.
If its a bug, we'll wait for 2.0 and then see. If 2.0 doesn't stop it, I'll report it again.
If its PC related, I'll be happy to try uninstalling/reinstalling, clean ups, etc, whatever is suggested, in about a week.
Have no fear,
drink more beer.
drink more beer.
By the way Ross, you don't know what you're missing.
Raverdave just sent me his combat replay from his other PBEM to have a look at. Haven't laughed so much for ages.
A joint, co-ordinated allied (base)/IJN (CV) strike on an allied transport TF. The highlights were :
1) Both sides having fighters and bombers present in the air to air combat display.
2) Alternating waves of Havocs, Marauders, Kates and Vals sweeping in to attack the allied TF.
3) One poor allied transport that was hit by both US 500lb and Jap 250kg bombs.
Maybe we should create a "Funniest UV Combat Replay" thread.
Raverdave just sent me his combat replay from his other PBEM to have a look at. Haven't laughed so much for ages.
A joint, co-ordinated allied (base)/IJN (CV) strike on an allied transport TF. The highlights were :
1) Both sides having fighters and bombers present in the air to air combat display.
2) Alternating waves of Havocs, Marauders, Kates and Vals sweeping in to attack the allied TF.
3) One poor allied transport that was hit by both US 500lb and Jap 250kg bombs.
Maybe we should create a "Funniest UV Combat Replay" thread.
Have no fear,
drink more beer.
drink more beer.
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Oleg Mastruko
- Posts: 4534
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Umm, I don't mean to be rude or anything, you guys at Matrix do a really good job of supporting this game, this is excellent game, you are great guys etc.Originally posted by Ross Moorhouse
Every save I get sent with this I can't replicate. If I can't replicate it the programer can't look at it.
But Ross, for gods sake, some 80+% of your replies are "I can't replicate the bug from the savefile you sent me". Hm? I am not saying you're necesarilly wrong here, or that you don't try enough, but if the guys reporting the bugs are able to replicate them every friggen time, and you can't replicate the bugs at all... hey, WTF? There is something definitely very wrong here.
Then I would say Matrix testing/bug-reporting process is buggy, not necesarilly the game itself.
One thing immediatelly comes to mind - you guys need more testing machines, more testers, more different configurations etc. Maybe this is simply processor-related, and if test it only on AMD-equipped PC (or Intel-equipped PC) you'll NEVER get the bug(s) to replicate, which is not a good thing.
O.
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Oleg Mastruko
- Posts: 4534
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Drongo, I tried but I can't send you e-mail thru this board (you blocked emails) but I'd like to be able to see this bug in action, ie to see whether I'd be able to reproduce it consistently on machines with different processors etc. on my Intel/AMD machines and in the hardware lab of the magazine I work for. (I'd be doing this next week most probably.)Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
One thing immediatelly comes to mind - you guys need more testing machines, more testers, more different configurations etc. Maybe this is simply processor-related, and if test it only on AMD-equipped PC (or Intel-equipped PC) you'll NEVER get the bug(s) to replicate, which is not a good thing.
So please if you wish send the most problematic savefiles to me at oleg@bug.hr.
We may be playing PBEM one day so if you don't want me to have a peek from your side in this game, I'll understand
I'm just trying to be helpful, not to spy on you 
(spying is just an additional bonus) 
Oleg
Nah I don't think so..........the ships that were bombed STILL had the damage sys/float when the next turn came around......I don't think that my OWN ships would be reporting sys damage of 35% + as FOW. I must admit to being worried that you were unable to see this incident when you replayed my turn....if you can't see it you can't fix it. I now have 2 PBEM on hold because of this.Originally posted by Ross Moorhouse
Every save I get sent with this I can't replicate. If I can't replicate it the programer can't look at it.
I have a thought that it could be the FOW
How soon before Patch 2.0 comes out?
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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Ross Moorhouse
- Posts: 780
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 5:00 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Oleg
Do you think I just give my address out to any boy who wants it?
Raverdave sent you a copy of his combat replay (he's easy).
If you see the alleged bug in action with Raverdave's, then you would probably see any of them.
Here's hoping we can narrow the problem down.
Thanks mate.
Drongo, I tried but I can't send you e-mail thru this board (you blocked emails)
Do you think I just give my address out to any boy who wants it?
Raverdave sent you a copy of his combat replay (he's easy).
If you see the alleged bug in action with Raverdave's, then you would probably see any of them.
Here's hoping we can narrow the problem down.
Thanks mate.
Have no fear,
drink more beer.
drink more beer.
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Oleg Mastruko
- Posts: 4534
- Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 8:00 am
Raverdave sent me his savefiles but combat replays are always generated at the Japanese (Drongo) player computer so I would need end-phase savefiles Dave (as Allied player) sent to his opponent (You, Drongo), and your (Drongo's) password to check it. Otherwise I just replay same "buggy" combat report over and over, ie report that is already generated in a "buggy" environment (so to say).
Having said that yes I noticed Marauders wreaking havoc to the allied AKs in this replay I've been sent.
I guess two different strikes just got mangled somehow.
But as I said all this is irrelevant for testing purposes, as combat results are *always* generated on the japanese side. Once genereted on "buggy" Jap PC, they are always going to be buggy. What I wanted to check is whether the CPU of the Japanese player PC would have any impact on the results generated? I wanted to run Dave's end phase file (opened on the Jap side with Jap passwd) to generate combat results on various "japanese" PCs to see whether it'll be different according to CPU model.
To do that I need your passwd Drongo and Dave's savefiles from the turn before bad things happened.
But of course, I am paranoic too, I don't like other people seeing my password neither my strategy, so i'll understand you reluctance to send me the files/passwords/naked photos of your mistresses etc.
O.
Having said that yes I noticed Marauders wreaking havoc to the allied AKs in this replay I've been sent.
I guess two different strikes just got mangled somehow.
But as I said all this is irrelevant for testing purposes, as combat results are *always* generated on the japanese side. Once genereted on "buggy" Jap PC, they are always going to be buggy. What I wanted to check is whether the CPU of the Japanese player PC would have any impact on the results generated? I wanted to run Dave's end phase file (opened on the Jap side with Jap passwd) to generate combat results on various "japanese" PCs to see whether it'll be different according to CPU model.
To do that I need your passwd Drongo and Dave's savefiles from the turn before bad things happened.
But of course, I am paranoic too, I don't like other people seeing my password neither my strategy, so i'll understand you reluctance to send me the files/passwords/naked photos of your mistresses etc.
O.
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CapAndGown
- Posts: 3078
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: Virginia, USA
Oleg,
A the replay file the US player sent you is the one the Jap player sent him. It is the same file no matter what machine you transfer it to. Except for the "starting from scratch" problem, it should play out the same on every machine it is sent to.
Therefore, the fact that you saw the problem, while Ross did not says to me that Ross is running a different version of the game, probably 2.0.
Ross, could you double check to see if you have been using 1.4 or 2.0 to examine save files players have been sending you?
A the replay file the US player sent you is the one the Jap player sent him. It is the same file no matter what machine you transfer it to. Except for the "starting from scratch" problem, it should play out the same on every machine it is sent to.
Therefore, the fact that you saw the problem, while Ross did not says to me that Ross is running a different version of the game, probably 2.0.
Ross, could you double check to see if you have been using 1.4 or 2.0 to examine save files players have been sending you?
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Ross Moorhouse
- Posts: 780
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 5:00 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
I dont have to check. I know I am running v2. Thats why I am hoping that by me not being able to see this problem will mean that when you guys get v2 you wont either.
But the programers havent done anything to v2 in relation to this bug as we havent been able to replicate it at our end. So they cant then interpret what nneds to be fixed.
But the programers havent done anything to v2 in relation to this bug as we havent been able to replicate it at our end. So they cant then interpret what nneds to be fixed.
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Ross Moorhouse
- Posts: 780
- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 5:00 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko
Umm, I don't mean to be rude or anything, you guys at Matrix do a really good job of supporting this game, this is excellent game, you are great guys etc.
But Ross, for gods sake, some 80+% of your replies are "I can't replicate the bug from the savefile you sent me". Hm? I am not saying you're necesarilly wrong here, or that you don't try enough, but if the guys reporting the bugs are able to replicate them every friggen time, and you can't replicate the bugs at all... hey, WTF? There is something definitely very wrong here.
Then I would say Matrix testing/bug-reporting process is buggy, not necesarilly the game itself.
One thing immediatelly comes to mind - you guys need more testing machines, more testers, more different configurations etc. Maybe this is simply processor-related, and if test it only on AMD-equipped PC (or Intel-equipped PC) you'll NEVER get the bug(s) to replicate, which is not a good thing.
O.
I run an AMD processor. What is wrong with that? Why wont we get all the bugs if we run on these ?
Posted by Oleg
Well, its not quite that (my mistresses normally enjoy having their photo's shown around - for a small fee - normally a beer).
Raverdave and I rolled forward a few turns to check things a week ago and I've been doing other things since. I wont have the time to set everything up again till next week.
The replay Raverdave sent is actually from a PBEM between him and someone else where dave's got the prob.
If we haven't got any further on this by next week, I'll reconstruct the turn I posted and send it over.
Cheers
But of course, I am paranoic too, I don't like other people seeing my password neither my strategy, so i'll understand you reluctance to send me the files/passwords/naked photos of your mistresses etc.
Well, its not quite that (my mistresses normally enjoy having their photo's shown around - for a small fee - normally a beer).
Raverdave and I rolled forward a few turns to check things a week ago and I've been doing other things since. I wont have the time to set everything up again till next week.
The replay Raverdave sent is actually from a PBEM between him and someone else where dave's got the prob.
If we haven't got any further on this by next week, I'll reconstruct the turn I posted and send it over.
Cheers
Have no fear,
drink more beer.
drink more beer.
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David Heath
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 5:00 pm
Hi Guys
We (Matrix and 2by3 Games) have looked into this at some depth and we can not find anything that would cause this problem. No one in the group can repeat this error with the save files. The Long Island issue is not the problem.
This is not to say you are not having a problem but if we can't reproduce it then there is really no way Mike, Gary or Keith can attempt to fix it. You guys have seen the type of support we have given our products so its not a lack of wanting to fix it.
The bottom line with this one to try to please narrow down what may be causing this error. We have tried the saved files on the last released version of UV and the up coming v2.0 and the results were the same.
I am sorry we do not have a better answer for you.
David Heath
We (Matrix and 2by3 Games) have looked into this at some depth and we can not find anything that would cause this problem. No one in the group can repeat this error with the save files. The Long Island issue is not the problem.
This is not to say you are not having a problem but if we can't reproduce it then there is really no way Mike, Gary or Keith can attempt to fix it. You guys have seen the type of support we have given our products so its not a lack of wanting to fix it.
The bottom line with this one to try to please narrow down what may be causing this error. We have tried the saved files on the last released version of UV and the up coming v2.0 and the results were the same.
I am sorry we do not have a better answer for you.
David Heath